Company changes nutes -- should I stay or go?

Hey Folks,

Looking for some opinions here. I just aborted my first grow due to the fact that my two plants were male. Other than that, they were extremely good growers and very healthy. I was using Advanced Nutrients Micro, Grow and Bloom.

AN has now discontinued this line, replacing it with their PH Perfect Micro, Grow and Bloom. I found this out because I reordered the three-part system, and the distributor sent me the regular Micro and Grow, but the PH Perfect Bloom.

Here's how it changes the ratios:

The full line of the regular line resulted in combined ratios of 5-6-10
The full line of the Ph Perfect results in combined ratios of 4-3-8

If I use the regular line and the PH Perfect Bloom, my ratio ends up being 6-4-10, instead of 5-6-10, which is what I'm used to.

So here are my questions:
1) is the change in the formulas from 5-6-10 to 4-3-8 a big deal? Is the tweaking in ratios an improvement?
2) if it's not an improvement, should I consider moving to a different manufacturer?
3) General Hydroponics' Flora series has combined ratios of 7-6-11. Does cannabis perform better with this ratio?

Thanks for your advice!
KG

I dislike GH/GO/Sunlight because of their shady business tactics. Companies like that stifle the development of the industry, make it difficult for distributors to do business without lining the same person's pockets and make it nearly impossible for developers to break into the industry without the help of multi-million dollar companies to pay the ridiculous fees GH/GO/Sunlight has fought to keep in place.

With that being said, I don't really have any preference outside of not supporting GH. Ive heard good things about AN in general, nothing specific about the pH-Perfect line. However, the standing million dollar challenge from their owner to do a head-to-head grow against him definitely makes me think there is something to their product.

I used the old Sensi Grow and the new Sensi Bloom on my outdoor with great results... The change N-P-K ratio is not that important what is the pH and ppm of your nutrient solution and how often you feed your plants I went with 2 fresh waterings to every feeding with no nutrient burn.

Smokeage said:

I dislike GH/GO/Sunlight because of their shady business tactics. Companies like that stifle the development of the industry, make it difficult for distributors to do business without lining the same person's pockets and make it nearly impossible for developers to break into the industry without the help of multi-million dollar companies to pay the ridiculous fees GH/GO/Sunlight has fought to keep in place.

With that being said, I don't really have any preference outside of not supporting GH. Ive heard good things about AN in general, nothing specific about the pH-Perfect line. However, the standing million dollar challenge from their owner to do a head-to-head grow against him definitely makes me think there is something to their product.

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Thanks for the info (and the backstory on GH). I will strongly consider this!

WhiteRooster said:

I used the old Sensi Grow and the new Sensi Bloom on my outdoor with great results... The change N-P-K ratio is not that important what is the pH and ppm of your nutrient solution and how often you feed your plants I went with 2 fresh waterings to every feeding with no nutrient burn.

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Thanks for this. I'm doing hydro, did not have a ppm meter the first go but was just a little conservative on the nuting. Again, the plants did great -- never a real problem and no overfeeding. I did order a ppm meter and it arrived the day I determined the plants were male. I'm just gearing up for round two.

I stopped using my ppm meter after a while the Advanced Nutrients calculator told me to use 77 tsp of both Sensi Bloom A and B in a 25 gallon reservoir. And when I would check it with the ppm meter it was right where is was suppose to be every time.

kryptoniteglo said:

So here are my questions:
1) is the change in the formulas from 5-6-10 to 4-3-8 a big deal? Is the tweaking in ratios an improvement?
2) if it's not an improvement, should I consider moving to a different manufacturer?
3) General Hydroponics' Flora series has combined ratios of 7-6-11. Does cannabis perform better with this ratio?

Thanks for your advice!
KG

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Your ratio isn't changing much and I doubt your plants could tell a difference. That being said, the GH flora series is the original 3 part, why buy a knock off? Another poster mentioned shady business practices in regards to GH??? There is no shadier company than AN, period.

Agreed...Advanced marketing

homebrewer said:

Your ratio isn't changing much and I doubt your plants could tell a difference. That being said, the GH flora series is the original 3 part, why buy a knock off? Another poster mentioned shady business practices in regards to GH??? There is no shadier company than AN, period.

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The difference between your complaints with AN and the complaints against GH is that you do not believe that their product is superior and there is evidence to prove GH uses shady practices. Companies like Sunlight hurt the entire industry from the shop owners to the product manufacturers whereas companies like AN are nothing more than another choice for consumers to choose from.

And before you say you can find grow journals that "prove" AN doesnt work then Ill just remind you that I can find just as many that say the opposite so that is hardly "proof."

Smokeage said:

The difference between your complaints with AN and the complaints against GH is that you do not believe that their product is superior and there is evidence to prove GH uses shady practices. Companies like Sunlight hurt the entire industry from the shop owners to the product manufacturers whereas companies like AN are nothing more than another choice for consumers to choose from.

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How can a product be 'superior' when one company blatantly rips off the other company's product and advertises it as such? That aside, what does sunlight supply have to do with GH? Honest question because I do not know. Want to talk about shady practices? How about the outright 'horticultural' lies on AN's website and their misleading marketing? How about the fact that they've split up all their foods into countless numbers of bottles in effort to financially gouge their customers? AN has pulled out every trick in the book in order to get a piece of the money floating around the black market and it amazes me that their customer base hasn't caught on to their practices yet.

The *difference* between GH and AN is that GH works as advertised. Want a 1 part, try floranova. Want a three part? Try their Flora Series. Like dry food? The maxi series works. These are hydro store staples that most other companies only hope to steal business away from.

Of course, it's every confusing to have ratios that are similar, but not exactly the same. I did notice that the GH flora series is 7-6-11, and the AN Jungle Juice series is also 7-6-11.

So surely this means that to the plant it's the same thing?

I'm hoping it's similar to human diets -- everyone swears by different approaches, but as long as we're all getting the right balance of protein, fat, carbs and vitamins and minerals we all have the same potential to be healthy for our species (barring other issues, of course). So little tweaks here and there shouldn't impact basic health that much.

One other thing I find confusing is that I've read that feeding veg plants 20-5-5 is good, and flowering plants should get 5-15-15. But none of the hydro nutrients seem to have those configurations.

Anyone have any ideas about that?

kryptoniteglo said:

One other thing I find confusing is that I've read that feeding veg plants 20-5-5 is good, and flowering plants should get 5-15-15. But none of the hydro nutrients seem to have those configurations.Anyone have any ideas about that?

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IMO the ratios have very little effect of the final yield. Good ph through out the whole grow will make all nutrients available and the plant will take what it wants when it wants it. I seem to notice more dense buds with foods higher in (k) I have always used the recommended 1-3-3 and or 1-3-2 lately I have been using a 2-1-3 or 2-1-4 which has seems to be bringing more density.

Other than that I have also been wondering about all the canna specific nute formulas that end in a final ratio of 2-1-3 or 2-1-4. (A.N,Canna,H&G) So for me the only way to get a conclusive answer is to use them and see. So far I have been liking those ratios.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

IMO the ratios have very little effect of the final yield. Good ph through out the whole grow will make all nutrients available and the plant will take what it wants when it wants it. I seem to notice more dense buds with foods higher in (k) I have always used the recommended 1-3-3 and or 1-3-2 lately I have been using a 2-1-3 or 2-1-4 which has seems to be bringing more density.

Other than that I have also been wondering about all the canna specific nute formulas that end in a final ratio of 2-1-3 or 2-1-4. (A.N,Canna,H&G) So for me the only way to get a conclusive answer is to use them and see. So far I have been liking those ratios.

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Thanks for this! I realize that this whole 20-5-5/5-15-15 is the crux of my question, as no hydro formula seems to offer it and I don't hear people complaining that their nutes in other ratios are leading to under-nourished plants.

So it sounds like I should forget 20-5-5/5-15-15 and really just use any of the combos out there and focus on ph and ppm just to make sure I'm not going overboard.

mr. green thumb 01 said:

IMO the ratios have very little effect of the final yield. Good ph through out the whole grow will make all nutrients available and the plant will take what it wants when it wants it. I seem to notice more dense buds with foods higher in (k) I have always used the recommended 1-3-3 and or 1-3-2 lately I have been using a 2-1-3 or 2-1-4 which has seems to be bringing more density.

Other than that I have also been wondering about all the canna specific nute formulas that end in a final ratio of 2-1-3 or 2-1-4. (A.N,Canna,H&G) So for me the only way to get a conclusive answer is to use them and see. So far I have been liking those ratios.

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Is your 'better' density coming from the higher K or lower P? Ive run lower P formulas and did get better density but it was at the expense of overall yield. Phosphorus promotes blooming. As with any element though, too much is not good. To further complicate things, ideal NPK ratios for dirt/promix/soil differ from that of hydro. High P formulas cause premature leaf-drop in the dirt but are ideal in hydro in my experience, assuming there is enough N of course.

homebrewer said:

Is your 'better' density coming from the higher K or lower P? Ive run lower P formulas and did get better density but it was at the expense of overall yield. Phosphorus promotes blooming. As with any element though, too much is not good. To further complicate things, ideal NPK ratios for dirt/promix/soil differ from that of hydro. High P formulas cause premature leaf-drop in the dirt but are ideal in hydro in my experience, assuming there is enough N of course.

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Im guessing both because I usually boost p way up in bloom this time I boosted k up and P was my lowest with either ratio I have pretty good yields. So the low p definitely didnt hurt that. I do grow dwc though and I will be sticking with those ratios for a while.