Coming To A Town Near You..No Search Warrants?

Doer

Well-Known Member
In CA FLIR or any snooping needs a warrant. And irradiating my home with x, k or whatever radar band is totally not legal. It can be ionizing radiation, according to torts, if I prevail. Not only that, if the Man wants to come in, they can, and look around, tie us up, taze us, shoot us, kill our dog, and just say, "Woops, wrong house."

No one will say, "I'm sorry about the dog."

"Privacy? You have no privacy. Get over it." Scott McNeily CEO Sun Microsystems
 
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Doer

Well-Known Member
Are you guys sure the cops need a warrant to use a FLIR? It looks like a warrant is necessary, but this guy (a lawyer) raises some good points.

http://volokh.com/2010/01/04/can-the-police-now-use-thermal-imaging-devices-without-a-warrant-a-reexamination-of-kyllo-in-light-of-the-widespread-use-of-infrared-temperature-sensors/
The law is a living beast and we challenge it constantly, all the way to SCOTUS.

In 1991, U.S. federal agents used infrared technology to scan the house of Danny Kyllo in Florence, Oregon. Based partly on the thermal images, the agents obtained a search warrant and soon found a marijuana growing operation with more than 100 plants.

Ten years later, the case finally wound up in the Supreme Court of the United States. In a 5-4 decision, the court found that the use of FLIR technology without a search warrant was an unreasonable search without a warrant. It struck out the evidence obtained by the thermal images and the subsequent search warrant.

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So, a closer reading of your article shows, that this dude is dreaming. He is opining that the little teakettle temp sensor I have in the kitchen can be used in law enforcement without warrant.

For what?

IAC, I bet, based on Kyllo, it cannot be. So, I don't get paid by the word like him. :) It is just a shell of an article with a catchy headline. And it ends like this.

To be clear, I am not posting this to be critical of Kyllo (although I have been critical of it elsewhere for other reasons). Rather, I am just trying to figure out how the case applies a decade or so later. Kyllo deliberately adopted a rule that allows the outcome to change along with society: I’m wondering if the intervening changes in society, as seen in Part II above, mean that the devices that the case prohibited without a warrant can now be used. I can’t be sure of the answer because the courts have never elaborated on the test for “general public use.” (Just how “general” is general enough?) But taking the case seriously, it seems to me that there’s at least a plausible case that the police can now use thermal imaging devices — or at least the simple single-point infrared devices — without a warrant.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
The law is a living beast and we challenge it constantly, all the way to SCOTUS.

In 1991, U.S. federal agents used infrared technology to scan the house of Danny Kyllo in Florence, Oregon. Based partly on the thermal images, the agents obtained a search warrant and soon found a marijuana growing operation with more than 100 plants.

Ten years later, the case finally wound up in the Supreme Court of the United States. In a 5-4 decision, the court found that the use of FLIR technology without a search warrant was an unreasonable search without a warrant. It struck out the evidence obtained by the thermal images and the subsequent search warrant.

-----------------------
So, a closer reading of your article shows, that this dude is dreaming. He is opining that the little teakettle temp sensor I have in the kitchen can be used in law enforcement without warrant.

For what?

IAC, I bet, based on Kyllo, it cannot be. So, I don't get paid by the word like him. :) It is just a shell of an article with a catchy headline. And it ends like this.

To be clear, I am not posting this to be critical of Kyllo (although I have been critical of it elsewhere for other reasons). Rather, I am just trying to figure out how the case applies a decade or so later. Kyllo deliberately adopted a rule that allows the outcome to change along with society: I’m wondering if the intervening changes in society, as seen in Part II above, mean that the devices that the case prohibited without a warrant can now be used. I can’t be sure of the answer because the courts have never elaborated on the test for “general public use.” (Just how “general” is general enough?) But taking the case seriously, it seems to me that there’s at least a plausible case that the police can now use thermal imaging devices — or at least the simple single-point infrared devices — without a warrant.
just so minority report is what struck me..one day they are making a case for tracking fugitives, next time? other heat signature stamps and we all know what that means.

whats to stop a cop from going around the neighborhood at night in order to indentify large heat stamps..tip off undercover. tip is a tip?
 
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Doer

Well-Known Member
just so minority report is what struck me..one day they are making a case for tracking fugitives, next time? other heat signature stamps and we all know what that means.

whats to stop a cop from going around the neighborhood at night in order to indentify large heat stamps..tip off undercover. tip is a tip?
Large heat stamps mean nothing. That is the meaning of Kyllo vs OR. It can be anything legal. It could be a 120 degree Yoga studio. It could be a miniature, highly lighted, stop action, Clay-mation, film project. It is endless how much heat stamp, I can legally produce.

SCOTUS has said in the USA, we use as much energy as we want and the Cops can't assume anything.

It is different in Canada. If you have 2 sntiches say so, you can FLIR the house.
 

spandy

Well-Known Member
whats to stop a cop from going around the neighborhood at night in order to indentify large heat stamps..tip off undercover. tip is a tip?


If I was a weed hatin cop I'd do it, use it to my advantage, maybe drive by that house that hit on the flir a couple extra times a month since I know something is up, might get lucky one day and find a reason to get out of my car, or maybe I'll create a reason, arrest some dopers, laugh about it later at the station, hang my drug interdiction award that the mayor will give me around the FLIR camera and pose with a coors light at the office party, but only my cop buddies will ever know what really lead me to stop at that house, and I'll keep the photo. Then, I'll get drunk and beat my wife.
 
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