cob | sip | scrog

Thorhax said:

You and some guy have convinced me to do sips everywhere!! I'm subbed up to see what your results are homie.

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SomeGuy and Hyroot convinced me... it seems like a great idea. I have two going indoors so far, and five made for my outdoor which will start in less than a month. Considering all of the people using them now, results should start rolling in pretty soon. There is a lot of experimenting going on, these are mostly DIY sips based on a concept not a blueprint, so it will be interesting to see how they do.

DIY> store bought stuff. this site has enough proof of that.

Thorhax said:

DIY> store bought stuff. this site has enough proof of that.

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Sometimes. I know what you mean, I think, but DIY is better than store bought stuff after you figure out how it works... Octopot and Earthbox probably did dozens if not hundreds of experimental grows before they brought their product to market. There may have been versions with bigger wicks, smaller wicks, more holes, less holes, etc etc etc -- and we don't have any access to that information. Then again, this might not be rocket science and we may find that a huge range of variation will all work. Just putting out the disclaimer.

Humanrob said:

Sometimes. I know what you mean, I think, but DIY is better than store bought stuff after you figure out how it works... Octopot and Earthbox probably did dozens if not hundreds of experimental grows before they brought their product to market. There may have been versions with bigger wicks, smaller wicks, more holes, less holes, etc etc etc -- and we don't have any access to that information. Then again, this might not be rocket science and we may find that a huge range of variation will all work. Just putting out the disclaimer.

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I'm a firm believer that you can make the same quality or better for a way cheaper price.

Thorhax said:

I'm a firm believer that you can make the same quality or better for a way cheaper price.

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IF you know what you're doing.

For the rest of us, a turnkey solution is worth whatever it costs, because 'results.'

Quick update, managed to get my arms around the bins -- which are a pretty tight fit in this tent -- and stretch some garbage bags over the tops of the bins. This morning the RH was @ 60%, higher than I'd like it be going into flower. I'm hoping the plastic will keep some of the moisture contained.

I'm 10 days into flower. I was flipping back through old pics I took, and here are some comparisons with my last grow when it was 10 days. That last one netted over 13oz, so I'm thinking this one should do even better... cannabis-goddess willing and the creek don't rise.

Last grow


This grow

yeah your going to have a really dense canopy. hope that fan has a turbo setting=P

Thorhax said:

yeah your going to have a really dense canopy. hope that fan has a turbo setting=P

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I hear you. A lot of people don't like trimming once they are in flower, I've read several times people say they won't trim past two weeks into flower. I don't know what negative effect its having, but I trim as I need to when I need to. Right now I'm letting it go, but if the buds start rising and there is too much contact or not enough airflow, I'll respond accordingly. I hope.

Thanks for the log really cool grow and great info. I am still reading this and your other thread did you say your size on your scrog space there?

Thanks.

kachiga said:

Thanks for the log really cool grow and great info. I am still reading this and your other thread did you say your size on your scrog space there?

Thanks.

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I'm glad you're enjoying the thread. This is my 6th (indoor) grow, and I still make mistakes all the time, some new, some repeats. I suggest waiting until this finishes before you try any of this stuff, its largely experimental.

As @Thorhax pointed out, my canopy is dense enough to be a problem... I've been down that road before, hopefully I won't be going there again.

The tent is a 2'x4' space.

Humanrob said:

I'm glad you're enjoying the thread. This is my 6th (indoor) grow, and I still make mistakes all the time, some new, some repeats. I suggest waiting until this finishes before you try any of this stuff, its largely experimental.

As @Thorhax pointed out, my canopy is dense enough to be a problem... I've been down that road before, hopefully I won't be going there again.

The tent is a 2'x4' space.

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O I wouldn't be able to try it for a while. I just got done setting up Ebb and Flow I got a few more grows out of that before I switch methods again But I never ran across this method before and it seems really neat so far.

I know all strains are different ect, but what was the best numbers you pulled off that screen so far? Like to know to maybe have an idea to compare it to for this grow.

Thanks.

kachiga said:

O I wouldn't be able to try it for a while. I just got done setting up Ebb and Flow I got a few more grows out of that before I switch methods again But I never ran across this method before and it seems really neat so far.

I know all strains are different ect, but what was the best numbers you pulled off that screen so far? Like to know to maybe have an idea to compare it to for this grow.

Thanks.

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Hmmmmm... actually that's a kind of complicated question. There are two ways to use a screen; one is to separate out, distribute evenly, and ultimately support the branches, and the other is as a true SCROG. In a scrog, the screen becomes a training method for the plants where you bend them horizontally in addition to just spreading them out. Bending the primary branches horizontally, (as I understand it) allows the buds along the stems to get more direct light, encouraging their growth. It can also be a useful technique if vertical space is limited, which in this grow might be an issue.

This grow is the second time I've used a screen as a scrog (last time was my very first grow). The previous grow that I compared to this one in that other post, the screen was just a method of spreading out the stems and supporting the buds as they got heavy. The last grow was four plants in either 3 or 5 gallon pots, this is two plants each in about 10 gallons of medium (which are SIPs). Too many variables I'd say to make any sort of useful comparison between the two, and so far they are the only two grows I have to compare from this tent.

I will say this -- 99% of the grows I see on here that I respect are all using screens, and it seems that most of them are just doing it to spread and support the branches. So it seems worth doing. Hope somewhere in all that babbling I might have answered your question... lol

Humanrob said:

Hmmmmm... actually that's a kind of complicated question. There are two ways to use a screen; one is to separate out, distribute evenly, and ultimately support the branches, and the other is as a true SCROG. In a scrog, the screen becomes a training method for the plants where you bend them horizontally in addition to just spreading them out. Bending the primary branches horizontally, (as I understand it) allows the buds along the stems to get more direct light, encouraging their growth. It can also be a useful technique if vertical space is limited, which in this grow might be an issue.

This grow is the second time I've used a screen as a scrog (last time was my very first grow). The previous grow that I compared to this one in that other post, the screen was just a method of spreading out the stems and supporting the buds as they got heavy. The last grow was four plants in either 3 or 5 gallon pots, this is two plants each in about 10 gallons of medium (which are SIPs). Too many variables I'd say to make any sort of useful comparison between the two, and so far they are the only two grows I have to compare from this tent.

I will say this -- 99% of the grows I see on here that I respect are all using screens, and it seems that most of them are just doing it to spread and support the branches. So it seems worth doing. Hope somewhere in all that babbling I might have answered your question... lol

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Yeah, that's what I started to do with a screen as well. Scrog for people with height restrict, I seen that top the plant early and spread it out. I been using net to LST and get canopy even.

I only asked because I thought you was doing that way from your last grows (Still haven't completed reading). Thanks for taking the time, I shall go back to reading again hehe.

I scrog no matter the height

Ahhhhh.... muther fukker. One of the girls has some PM. Two days ago I first noticed that strange phenomenon where randomly, only once or twice, I saw water had collected between two leaves that were touching. That happened the last time -- as I'm sure I've mentioned -- two grows ago I lost an entire crop to PM. That previous run was the first time I had ever seen PM in an indoor grow, and I was not prepared.

I just did a massive defoliation (I did a good sized one two days ago after first seeing the water on the leaves). My first 4 grows I was so happy growing thick cannabis forests, but it would appear that won't be happening anymore. After my last grow completed without incident, I thought maybe the bad grow happened because of a series of identifiable mistakes and I was back on track to growing in the style I like most. But apparently not.

I've always thought thin spindly grows looked less healthy and lush, but it is definitely better than nothing. I expect to do another trim before this is over. Hopefully with some GreenCure I can keep ahead of it, because flowers are starting... not sure what I can do/spray/add once they get going. I've got the fans on high and the dehumidifier on Max, between that and the heat buildup (from the dehumidifier) it will hopefully be an inhospitable environment for PM.

One thing I learned in my after-the-fact research after my last encounter with PM, is that you have to be careful not to over-water because when the leaves are constantly fully hydrated they can sweat (there is a technical word for it but I don't recall it) moisture making the leaves more conducive to breeding PM. That would explain the moisture build-up between the leaves. Hmmmmm... with SIPs, there is constant water. I wonder if I should let my SIPs dry out between fillings?

As it is, I just filled them. Five days and they each took 3 gallons +/-. I will definitely not use these bins in this tent again. As I trim, leaves are falling behind them and there is no way I can reach them to clean them up. My understanding is that those leaves can become a breeding ground for PM. It's also just more water than I need. I have a pair of SIPs made from 5 gallon cloth pots over 3 gallon buckets that I'll try next time.

In the end, I chalk this up to my own case of the Icarus Syndrome -- I'm always trying to see how much I can squeeze into a space and how much I can get out of it. Moving forward I'll spend less time trying to out do myself, and more time just focusing on getting plants to run to completion.

Rob. Here are.some tips:

-shop vac for the dead leaves
-run one sip instead of two
-box fan hung from ceiling of tent shooting straight down towards canopy on high. Hard for PM to form with leaves moving, all leaves should be.moving in the room.
-air circulating under screen also
-religious removal of under growth.

Lemon grass oil
Milk
Both known to fight PM also

SomeGuy said:

Rob. Here are.some tips:

-shop vac for the dead leaves
-run one sip instead of two
-box fan hung from ceiling of tent shooting straight down towards canopy on high. Hard for PM to form with leaves moving, all leaves should be.moving in the room.
-air circulating under screen also
-religious removal of under growth.

Lemon grass oil
Milk
Both known to fight PM also

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Thanks, I'll do what I can on this run, and next time around I will adjust accordingly. Hopefully I can wiggle the shop vac tube over the top and have it drop down behind the bins, there is no room between them or on either side. Lesson learned about filling spaces vs. leaving room to work. I do have a fan in the back on the floor pointing up, but with the huge bins its influence is limited. I can't actually fit a box fan over my light, logistically it just won't work. But smaller containers and more open floor space (on future grows) I'll have a lot more options for moving air.

In the grow I had that got out of control PM, I was running J1, Bruce Banner #3, Gorilla Glue #4, and a Sour Diesel (spread across three grow spaces in one room). I chose those strains because my patient likes very high THC sativa dominant hybrids. The J1 and BB#3 were the first to get it, but they all succumb eventually.

I've been trying those strains again, since they still fit my requirements and I still want to grow them. In my last grow I successfully grew a GG#4 and a Blue Dream (another one that fits the criteria, but one I later read is PM vulnerable) with no problem. This time I'm running a BB#3 and another strain. I also picked up another J1, but while vegging I saw PM on it, so I composted it right away. It was never in the same space with the current run. Right now, its only the BB#3 that has shown a few spots of PM. So, both times I've tried to run BB and J1 they've gotten PM. Obviously I won't be trying them again.

Moving forward I'll have to choose my indoor strains more like I'm choosing my outdoor. Hopefully I can save this one.

Just to be clear, are you saying cow's milk in a foliar spray will help prevent PM?

is your grow area vented? like fresh air exchange?

I've never used it but I believe that is what a lot of folks have done for PM. I've never actually had to fight pm. I do keep air moving in my grow spaces. Probably to excess so that may be why. Plus humidity is almost always between 20-50% depending. I do live in a somewhat ideal weed growing area tbh.