Co2 burners ......need to verify some things ....stop in

Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
chemphlegm said:
the pilot is a boon to my production, I chose to replace my electronic ignition unit with a always lit pilot light unit for my win. It cycles less times every day now and I havent had to service it in four years since new. My electronic unit needed two thermocoupler sparker replacements in a two yr period. I love my pilot light
Click to expand...
Yes i like pilots to :). Way less troubles.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
chemphlegm said:
no fighting at all just keeping on point. we all know we can have a ventless heater in our homes, but the point was are c02 generators approved for bedroom use. I like the Blue Ox UL listed burner though, good find thanks!
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No CO2 burners are not approved for bedrooms lol. That would be dangerous lol.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
chemphlegm said:
no fighting at all just keeping on point. we all know we can have a ventless heater in our homes, but the point was are c02 generators approved for bedroom use. I like the Blue Ox UL listed burner though, good find thanks!
Click to expand...
Not to beat a dead horse but "keep on point" you say lol. Who mentioned a bedroom? Not the op unless it's one big fucking bedroom lol.
 
chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
the 500 tank would be me

feed the burners and a supply to run gennys if the power went out .......i want to do hydro as it reduces overhead once all the gear has been gotten and set up
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who told you hydro growing will be cheaper than promix in buckets?
I cost me hundreds monthly to run hydro/72 plants. The bills were near double what they are now in my
humble promix/organicare/water grow and that means I can afford better equip, more watts, more genetics, and generally have more fun. and to top that shit I havent employed my wet/dry vac in years since I raftered my hydro equip....lol otherwise in was on standby with another in case of failure.....
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
hey

OK we all know Co2 good ........i moved out of a illegal area into a legal one so some of my methods are no longer need to be used like bottle Co2/mash buckets

so i am here to ask a few ?s about propain Co2 ......if i miss anything please add in i will return the favor by passing the info on to others i run across

1 does a Co2 burn cause the RH in the room to go UP (i heard someone say this once)
2 if u had to go between using tanks of propain or having a large 250/500 gallon tank put in what would u do
3 controllers who should i look at who should i avoid (tank was timer on a set release rate simple math)

if u need the basics
944 ft above sea lvl natural amount is only in 350ppm at best 200ppm avg
area is 24x36 feet with a 12 foot roof
shooting for 1200-1500 ppm

4 based off the size of the area what number of burners should i look at
5 is there a basic rule of thumb 1 burner adds so much Co2 ...something i can do the math double check/keep it for later expansions

6 i was running auto plants so my light table table was at 20/4 for the whole room with a natural ppm of 700ppm bummed it to 1500/2000 with tank/mash buckets....i plan to do some photos too now i have room to work does it hurt the plants if i keep the ppm at like 1200ppm with lights off for the flowering photos (not zoning off the area just use tents for the light blocking factor but keep the envo control all one big area to cut down on stuff)

7 i am assuming it is always best to hang the burner instead of setting on the floor( oxygen is lighter then Co2 u want it burning the O up to make Co2 )

now if i have missed anything please toss it in .....horror stories about burns .....simple improvements can do to get most out of gear
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1: You get about a 4/5ths gallon of water for every gallon of propane burned (0.81 to be exact).

2: Large tank.

3: The environmental controller of choice now-a-days is AUTOPILOT..... I prefer the environ controller with an added Co2 Monitor/controller to control Temps/RH/PPM. Be sure to get a water cooled one and have a cooling tank that the water cycles though. www.4hydroponics.com/grow-room/co2

4&5: I doubt your space is all bloom? You only need to gas in bloom. The return in veg to cost = NOT worth it. Anyway, I bet a 4 burner would do fine.
Please note that over 1200ppm is not worth attempting to do......Any increase in plant response to 1500 is far to hard to maintain by any grower to even try. The light intensity needed is almost impossible to do. The temps and RH are hard to maintain, so all this makes it not cost effective or for the vast majority of growers - impossible. 800 is easy and effective, while 1300 is the basic ceiling for supplementing Co2 in growing. You can go up to 1500 but, your not even going to be able to deliver the needed Umals in light intensity to actually allow the plant to use that high a ppm.....ANYTHING over 1500 ppm is useless - PERIOD....

Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of propane - 139.0 OR 3.0 Kg of Co2 per Kg of propane burned

Time for you to do your own math - I gave you the key - You have to find burn rates for specific burners.

Something to consider: The use of propane to increase Co2 rates has a problem built in. It produces ethylene gas as a side effect of the combustion process. Ethylene gas causes plants to ripen faster. Not good for what we want to do. this was always a problem in greenhouse work... it's why a "sealed" room and generating Co2 by propane, is not the best idea. You'll need to use that enviro controller to run exhaust and cooling for that "reset" of the room's temps/RH to relieve the build up of ethylene too.

6: It won't hurt. I used to run an exhaust cycle right after lights out. I wanted that big temp swing for natural coloring and i wanted the excess RH out for night.

7: You got it right! Hang it...

Need to ask a question - fire away!

Good final season for Capaldi,,,eh? I really like Bill! Wish she would stay on ... Wild rumor mill on the next Doc eh? Female/gay/non-white - Just give me someone I can believe in.....
 
justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
chemphlegm said:
who told you hydro growing will be cheaper than promix in buckets?
I cost me hundreds monthly to run hydro/72 plants. The bills were near double what they are now in my
humble promix/organicare/water grow and that means I can afford better equip, more watts, more genetics, and generally have more fun. and to top that shit I havent employed my wet/dry vac in years since I raftered my hydro equip....lol otherwise in was on standby with another in case of failure.....
Click to expand...
just running the numbers
it completely removes the whole soil cost plus augments cost

it does increase the Feed and the balancing cost (ph aqua sheild) ...and the power needed if using a water chiller

but the over all amount it yeilds 1 plant can pay for the whole op make the other plants sheer profit
1 plant sent me and 3 buddies to 2014 devner cup (plane tickets and hotel) it cost me 110 bucks (power feed seed ) avg about 1 buck a day (some days more some days less 90 cent 1.10 kind of shit with adding extra stuff or system not needing it )

Dr. Who said:
1: You get about a 4/5ths gallon of water for every gallon of propane burned (0.81 to be exact).

2: Large tank.

3: The environmental controller of choice now-a-days is AUTOPILOT..... I prefer the environ controller with an added Co2 Monitor/controller to control Temps/RH/PPM. Be sure to get a water cooled one and have a cooling tank that the water cycles though. www.4hydroponics.com/grow-room/co2

4&5: I doubt your space is all bloom? You only need to gas in bloom. The return in veg to cost = NOT worth it. Anyway, I bet a 4 burner would do fine.
Please note that over 1200ppm is not worth attempting to do......Any increase in plant response to 1500 is far to hard to maintain by any grower to even try. The light intensity needed is almost impossible to do. The temps and RH are hard to maintain, so all this makes it not cost effective or for the vast majority of growers - impossible. 800 is easy and effective, while 1300 is the basic ceiling for supplementing Co2 in growing. You can go up to 1500 but, your not even going to be able to deliver the needed Umals in light intensity to actually allow the plant to use that high a ppm.....ANYTHING over 1500 ppm is useless - PERIOD....

Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of propane - 139.0 OR 3.0 Kg of Co2 per Kg of propane burned

Time for you to do your own math - I gave you the key - You have to find burn rates for specific burners.

Something to consider: The use of propane to increase Co2 rates has a problem built in. It produces ethylene gas as a side effect of the combustion process. Ethylene gas causes plants to ripen faster. Not good for what we want to do. this was always a problem in greenhouse work... it's why a "sealed" room and generating Co2 by propane, is not the best idea. You'll need to use that enviro controller to run exhaust and cooling for that "reset" of the room's temps/RH to relieve the build up of ethylene too.

6: It won't hurt. I used to run an exhaust cycle right after lights out. I wanted that big temp swing for natural coloring and i wanted the excess RH out for night.

7: You got it right! Hang it...

Need to ask a question - fire away!

Good final season for Capaldi,,,eh? I really like Bill! Wish she would stay on ... Wild rumor mill on the next Doc eh? Female/gay/non-white - Just give me someone I can believe in.....
Click to expand...
they have broken all know concepts to the show.....he is on his 13th
with that they did to save his planet and not push the button .......they have limited him to only 13th regens other wise they would of said the 14 15 the 16 doctor is here telling us the story is going to go on

it ends with him......i do like him he reminds me of tom baker with the way he takes/reacts to stuff
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
just running the numbers
it completely removes the whole soil cost plus augments cost

it does increase the Feed and the balancing cost (ph aqua sheild) ...and the power needed if using a water chiller

but the over all amount it yeilds 1 plant can pay for the whole op make the other plants sheer profit
1 plant sent me and 3 buddies to 2014 devner cup (plane tickets and hotel) it cost me 110 bucks (power feed seed ) avg about 1 buck a day (some days more some days less 90 cent 1.10 kind of shit with adding extra stuff or system not needing it )



they have broken all know concepts to the show.....he is on his 13th
with that they did to save his planet and not push the button .......they have limited him to only 13th regens other wise they would of said the 14 15 the 16 doctor is here telling us the story is going to go on

it ends with him......i do like him he reminds me of tom baker with the way he takes/reacts to stuff
Click to expand...
If set up properly I'm thinking Hydro would be less labor intensive as well in a larger grow and doubt you'll be using a wet vac, I know I don't lol. As for the cost of each system, based on yield and speed of turn over that's an interesting question, but also there is the organic thing if taking it to market (legally). I have found that not once have I been asked if it was organically grown in any of my trunk transactions lol.
Can't wait to see this up and running, keep us posted.
 
chemphlegm

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
You hit it spot on with the labor man! moving shit and dirt is a big chore for an old man these days

I register legal people and they ALL demand organic style mj. This was one of the deciding factors for me to change from my beloved
hydro awesome system/program to organic style pro mix/poop. I could not find one bottled nutrient system that would perform well in multiple flood and drain trays. thats when I found the savings too. I loved me hydro too dammit. like many people I started in the 70's with homemade shit, and yes, a wet and vac was necessary, and one on standby. Recently I used one to change out my reservoirs. I had 7 30 gallon reservoirs in (perpetual)flower and 2 more 20 gallon in veg. thats a bunch of water to move every week. my wet vac would suck and pump at the same time as well as clean up spills/floods. My RH control was double the cost it is now. I keep a tight watch on the killowatt meters.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
All of my res's have hose bibs so it's just a matter of opening a valve, but yup a wet vac works to ;). I was really considering drain to waste due to res temp issues but the chiller has solved all that. There is a lab here that has a line of organic certified nutes for hydro but I haven't taken the plunge yet, they admit their salts produce more, and I've had good luck with them.
 
justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
If set up properly I'm thinking Hydro would be less labor intensive as well in a larger grow and doubt you'll be using a wet vac, I know I don't lol. As for the cost of each system, based on yield and speed of turn over that's an interesting question, but also there is the organic thing if taking it to market (legally). I have found that not once have I been asked if it was organically grown in any of my trunk transactions lol.
Can't wait to see this up and running, keep us posted.
Click to expand...
chemphlegm said:
You hit it spot on with the labor man! moving shit and dirt is a big chore for an old man these days

I register legal people and they ALL demand organic style mj. This was one of the deciding factors for me to change from my beloved
hydro awesome system/program to organic style pro mix/poop. I could not find one bottled nutrient system that would perform well in multiple flood and drain trays. thats when I found the savings too. I loved me hydro too dammit. like many people I started in the 70's with homemade shit, and yes, a wet and vac was necessary, and one on standby. Recently I used one to change out my reservoirs. I had 7 30 gallon reservoirs in (perpetual)flower and 2 more 20 gallon in veg. thats a bunch of water to move every week. my wet vac would suck and pump at the same time as well as clean up spills/floods. My RH control was double the cost it is now. I keep a tight watch on the killowatt meters.
Click to expand...
ok guys just know .......51% organic and 49% chemical is still thought as organic (the ppl growing 100% organic can not afford to stay in biz the yield it makes vs the cost of everything will bankrupt anyone )

the way around your trouble on that in hydro is the micros u add into it to keep the system balanced (the NPK and trace stuff will be chemical based as they do the best in a hydro system)
as for the organics it is...... vegan tea....... AN line of micros ....FF line of micros and root drenches....aqua shield
then when u know it harvest time do a good flush ......water for 5 to 7 days(add in a flusher agent if u want) then do your 48 darkness so the cells in the plant have nothing to make the smoke harsh
just to keep a strait face and not be a lier at least 51% of the feed mix has to been organic based .....u get that by increasing the amount of micros u have added doubling or tripling what calls on bottles to keep the right ratio

u have grown organic hydro
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
ok guys just know .......51% organic and 49% chemical is still thought as organic (the ppl growing 100% organic can not afford to stay in biz the yield it makes vs the cost of everything will bankrupt anyone )

the way around your trouble on that in hydro is the micros u add into it to keep the system balanced (the NPK and trace stuff will be chemical based as they do the best in a hydro system)
as for the organics it is...... vegan tea....... AN line of micros ....FF line of micros and root drenches....aqua shield
then when u know it harvest time do a good flush ......water for 5 to 7 days(add in a flusher agent if u want) then do your 48 darkness so the cells in the plant have nothing to make the smoke harsh
just to keep a strait face and not be a lier at least 51% of the feed mix has to been organic based .....u get that by increasing the amount of micros u have added doubling or tripling what calls on bottles to keep the right ratio

u have grown organic hydro
Click to expand...
Very interesting read. Was just wondering what is the deal on the organic/bottled plant food. Why not just use bottled plant food or dry nutrients?
 
justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
Very interesting read. Was just wondering what is the deal on the organic/bottled plant food. Why not just use bottled plant food or dry nutrients?
Click to expand...
it is all bottled

see some are organic based (poop)
some are chemical based (prue raw NPK in water with some coloring to help tell what is what)

any dry food is going to be a chemical based product unless is it a tea type thing where the solutions brews a few days before use

they are talking about market selling the crop ........alot of shops if they hear hydro and chemical based they will offer less money per LB ( due to idoits not flushing correctly given hydro a bad name )....u say the word organic and shops/ ppl will buy it up (yuppies and hippies and hipsters)

my last posting is just pointing out if the feed ratio is 51% organic based items the weed is thought of as organically grown
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
it is all bottled

see some are organic based (poop)
some are chemical based (prue raw NPK in water with some coloring to help tell what is what)

any dry food is going to be a chemical based product unless is it a tea type thing where the solutions brews a few days before use

they are talking about market selling the crop ........alot of shops if they hear hydro and chemical based they will offer less money per LB ( due to idoits not flushing correctly given hydro a bad name )....u say the word organic and shops/ ppl will buy it up (yuppies and hippies and hipsters)

my last posting is just pointing out if the feed ratio is 51% organic based items the weed is thought of as organically grown
Click to expand...
I see. I know what you mean. Where i live its a little different. All you need is some great weed and lab results, and your ready to vend. Here is a lab result from like 10 days ago i think. Out side of showing them something they don't have and might need the test for chemical pesticides/fungicides and mold spores must come back as none detected. And they'll do a mold test to, to see if there are any spores in the bud.
 

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justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
I see. I know what you mean. Where i live its a little different. All you need is some great weed and lab results, and your ready to vend. Here is a lab result from like 10 days ago i think. Out side of showing them something they don't have and might need the test for chemical pesticides/fungicides and mold spores must come back as none detected. And they'll do a mold test to, to see if there are any spores in the bud.
Click to expand...
what state
i am oregon they have fucked the pouch on this one
heat gaschromatagraph testing (dumbest thing on the market cured correctly before test the number they show will be 3-4% off) to get the right numbers u need to test mid cure
no mold test required
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
justugh said:
what state
i am oregon they have fucked the pouch on this one
heat gaschromatagraph testing (dumbest thing on the market cured correctly before test the number they show will be 3-4% off) to get the right numbers u need to test mid cure
no mold test required
Click to expand...
California.
 
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