Cant figure out deficiency

Thank you for the super helpful info guys. Im going to give a good watering with a compost tea and begin raising the ph of my water.

should I water with a high ph like 7 to raise the medium? or just move it up to 6.5ish?

Doesn't matter too much for what you're planning to do, but I'd say 6.5ish.
You might want to test the runoff to see where all the levels stand, knowing what you put in the top to see what's really going on down there.

You don't need to adjust ph. When you wash out the salts the ph will naturally rise from the lime in the mix and the calcium in tap water.

Adjusting ph in soil is only neccesary with very hard water. With the high alkalinity in hard water it "may" be necessary.

Adjusting ph is a hydro technique.

My well water is 8.0 ph out of the tap. But it only has 150 ppm or .3 ec of calcium, mag and other trace elements. Perfect for hydro or soil.

It is not the ph. It is the alkalinity. The plants and soil self adjust.

Most times I see what everyone says is a ph problem it is from over adjusting the ph with acid that is the problem.

This info is on many websites such as pro- mix and jacks fertilizer. And any actual greenhouse fertilization guide or real grow book.

mellamojuan said:

it seems like the roots have bounded idk what you could do about that tho

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IN 5, 10, 30 and 55 gallon drums I've grown in ALL of them had roots hanging out the bottom and twirling in the container up the sides at some point.
I grew seven basil plants in the same five gallon container for 9 years never changing soil. the roots were up above th esoil they were twirled so much up the sides of the bucket over the years, yet I still harvest much basil every month to this day.

dont buy the hype of root bound

Bugeye said:

Not an underfed look so likely nutrient antagonism or bad ph.

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but with bad ph a plant will show deficiencies??? of being underfed even though plenty of nutrients are abound.
this is where the forum shines man, add add add...its all about adding something when you see a deficiency here right

MichiganMedGrower said:

You don't need to adjust ph. When you wash out the salts the ph will naturally rise from the lime in the mix and the calcium in tap water.

Adjusting ph in soil is only neccesary with very hard water. With the high alkalinity in hard water it "may" be necessary.

Adjusting ph is a hydro technique.

My well water is 8.0 ph out of the tap. But it only has 150 ppm or .3 ec of calcium, mag and other trace elements. Perfect for hydro or soil.

It is not the ph. It is the alkalinity. The plants and soil self adjust.

Most times I see what everyone says is a ph problem it is from over adjusting the ph with acid that is the problem.

This info is on many websites such as pro- mix and jacks fertilizer. And any actual greenhouse fertilization guide or real grow book.

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In case you were directing to me.. we're saying the same thing man. He has to get his soil pH back to 6.5ish, by any means necessary, and now he will water with 6.5 water washing salts out and I told him to set pH in the medium by any means necessary, this means keep going, which would be leaching as you suggest and check runoff, and it's done. using a compost tea to do this, is just a bonus, pH will be set, plant will be flushed, no more salt building driving pH down. done. So. I agree with you. And your assesment of the Potassium a page back, I agree as well, 100% it is a Potassium deficiency, from low pH in the medium from salts. Just got this vibe like we were in an argument, but in fact just a miscommunication. cu man. Good Growing. You know your stuff. All good info.

just see how its potassium deficient even though it receives potassium regularly?

bad ph, too much nutrients often report as a deficiency because the plant is no longer uptaking.
adding more is ill every time. I never was able to correct a plant problem by adding anything but water.

its never been "not enough" for me. never. issues happen when theres too much of something(assuming every other control is spot on)

Johnei said:

In case you were directing to me.. we're saying the same thing man. He has to get his soil pH back to 6.5ish, by any means necessary, and now he will water with 6.5 water washing salts out and I told him to set pH in the medium by any means necessary, this means keep going, which would be leaching as you suggest and check runoff, and it's done. using a compost tea to do this, is just a bonus, pH will be set, plant will be flushed, no more salt building driving pH down. done. So. I agree with you. And your assesment of the Potassium a page back, I agree as well, 100% it is a Potassium deficiency, from low pH in the medium from salts. Just got this vibe like we were in an argument, but in fact just a miscommunication. cu man. Good Growing. You know your stuff. All good info.

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I agree with most of your comment above. What I don't agree with is focusing on ph. The ph in the root zone is not the problem when leaching is necessary. It is the salt buildup literally blocking certain elements from the roots.

Also once the medium is saturated with salts the CEC (citation exchange) is affected.

He ph is variable and not always the same in the roots as the runoff. And in good potting soil with lime or oyster shell in the proper amount it is self correcting. And the plants uptaking raises ph as well. And so does the source water if it contains calcium.

I use ocean forest. Many say they are having ph problems. I have never seen them. Just over fertilization problems.

Pro mix too.

But I hear where you are coming from. I just think it is a bit misdirecting.

MichiganMedGrower said:

I agree with most of your comment above. What I don't agree with is focusing on ph. The ph in the root zone is not the problem when leaching is necessary. It is the salt buildup literally blocking certain elements from the roots.

Also once the medium is saturated with salts the CEC (citation exchange) is affected.

He ph is variable and not always the same in the roots as the runoff. And in good potting soil with lime or oyster shell in the proper amount it is self correcting. And the plants uptaking raises ph as well. And so does the source water if it contains calcium.

I use ocean forest. Many say they are having ph problems. I have never seen them. Just over fertilization problems.

Pro mix too.

But I hear where you are coming from. I just think it is a bit misdirecting.

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Would you recommend a soil like roots organics or ocean forest to someone like me? This is not the first of my threads that you've helped me out in. I frequently have some issue or another. I amended the crap out of my SSA#4 trying to avoid issues like this, and got them anyways. I'm pretty knew to it still I suppose.

MichiganMedGrower said:

You don't need to adjust ph. When you wash out the salts the ph will naturally rise from the lime in the mix and the calcium in tap water.

Adjusting ph in soil is only neccesary with very hard water. With the high alkalinity in hard water it "may" be necessary.

Adjusting ph is a hydro technique.

My well water is 8.0 ph out of the tap. But it only has 150 ppm or .3 ec of calcium, mag and other trace elements. Perfect for hydro or soil.

It is not the ph. It is the alkalinity. The plants and soil self adjust.

Most times I see what everyone says is a ph problem it is from over adjusting the ph with acid that is the problem.

This info is on many websites such as pro- mix and jacks fertilizer. And any actual greenhouse fertilization guide or real grow book.

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Maybe I am reading your post wrong. Adjusting your soil ph is always necessary if it is out of range. It should be done before you start growing. I agree that adjusting water or nute ph in soil grows is not needed because of soil buffering,which is why soil ph needs to be in 6.5 area for mj.

chemphlegm said:

but with bad ph a plant will show deficiencies??? of being underfed even though plenty of nutrients are abound.
this is where the forum shines man, add add add...its all about adding something when you see a deficiency here right

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Yes, with bad ph plant will show deficiencies.

papa canna said:

Would you recommend a soil like roots organics or ocean forest to someone like me? This is not the first of my threads that you've helped me out in. I frequently have some issue or another. I amended the crap out of my SSA#4 trying to avoid issues like this, and got them anyways. I'm pretty knew to it still I suppose.

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All I really can say is the solution is to pick a medium and nutrients and use them until you get good at it.

I have been using mine for two and a half years and just bought more. And most any complete and well made stuff can work well.

I keep it very easy. I use unadjusted well water in ocean forest from seed usually and only add pure Blend Pro Grow when it is needed after a couple to three weeks in flower. Then a mild avg 10 ml solution unadjusted as usual every watering.

Starting at 5ml and tapering up to peak flowering and then down the last 2-3 weeks usually ending at 5 or water only.

If something goes wrong it is one of those three things being mis managed.

Or it's the environment. Which is likely in my ventilated room. So I turn down the humidifier some. Back off the lights. Adjust the fans. Etc.

So I keep trying to get the nutes right. Water the perfect day right at lights on. Get the light distance in the sweet spot. Etc. and it all keeps getting better more than worse.

I tried different soils and nutes in the beginning. I never learned anything for sure that way. I have plenty of old bottles laying around.

Good wet dry cycle and not too much fertilizer seems to be key. When I tend to over water even a little bit it screws up an amended soil grow until I stop it.

I let the pots dry 3/4 down when probed with a cheap moisture meter. It needs to be in the middle or low end of where it says dry.

I also like to read all about the products I use starting with the product website. Many like pro mix have educational pages they are very good. Just not mj specific.

I can't recomend much because I stick to what was in my town when I moved here.

Bugeye said:

Maybe I am reading your post wrong. Adjusting your soil ph is always necessary if it is out of range. It should be done before you start growing. I agree that adjusting water or nute ph in soil grows is not needed because of soil buffering,which is why soil ph needs to be in 6.5 area for mj.

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I should have specified that I use good pre packaged soil and always check after I mix in some perlite after a few days. Like you are advising.

If you make your own. I agree with what you are saying. But if you read any Greenhouse type guide you will see water charts that tell you exactly how much acid to add if needed.

It is mostly about water alkalinity and how it affects the medium over time.

This assumes the potting mix is properly buffered.

Most guides say after .5 or 250 ppm adjustment or mixing with ro water may be neccesary.

I stopped adjusting. Tried to feed more to what the plants would use in one wet dry cycle and it all balanced out. Burns went away.

Unless I have done something wrong or the environment is stressful somehow.

Here were I live I've found the consistency of OF to be not very consistent. One bag will get you to flower and others you'll start having to feed in veg.

jarvild said:

Here were I live I've found the consistency of OF to be not very consistent. One bag will get you to flower and others you'll start having to feed in veg.

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They have 2 processing centers. The bags I get apparently come from the eastern one. You?

I always add 20-25% large perlite or I have drainage related problems like salt buildup depending on the season.

I had to leach a plant in my new mix last night and I noticed I don't think I mixed in enough perlite. Drainage was a bit slow with her.

Other than my mistake I have found no difference in time to feed really. Maybe strain related.

East here also, The problem with the east region is they use pine bark for a filler.
And yes from my experience extra perlite is needed for good drainage.
If it works for you than I don't have a problem, I'm just stating my experience with using it for a few years.
Unfortunately where I live I am only available to purchase it at a hydro store which charges $22 for the 1 1/2 cu ft bag.
I can go to a local Menards and get a cu ft bag of Pro-Mix ultimate Organic for around $6 a bag. So I get twice as much medium for the same price. Still requires extra perlite but it works as good as OF. It's all I use for my veggie gardens.

jarvild said:

East here also, The problem with the east region is they use pine bark for a filler.
And yes from my experience extra perlite is needed for good drainage.
If it works for you than I don't have a problem, I'm just stating my experience with using it for a few years.
Unfortunately where I live I am only available to purchase it at a hydro store which charges $22 for the 1 1/2 cu ft bag.
I can go to a local Menards and get a cu ft bag of Pro-Mix ultimate Organic for around $6 a bag. So I get twice as much medium for the same price. Still requires extra perlite but it works as good as OF. It's all I use for my veggie gardens.

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Cool. Im not stuck on ocean forest. It's a bit dense and heavy. But I live way out in the woods and a local store keeps palates for us inside. Which is the most important thing I think. Good dry storage inside.

But now we have a hydro store not too far away and the carry a bunch of popular stuff. I might experiment again.

Or just maybe mix pro mix and some dry organic fertilizer and see how it goes.

I have not tried new mediums or soil in a few years.

Update: So this morning I gave them a good flushing with Guano company's Budswel compost tea, the water went in at about 6.5 and came out at about 6.4 People are always telling me to check my run off, but im not all too sure what I'm looking for when I do it. Now I can just wait and see how they respond. Im not sure how long something like this would take to see results.

Johnei said:

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He's feeding below pH 6.2, plus medium is probably dropping from acid foods. Look at main NPK Ca Mg uptake for soil

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Only he is not in soil....he said charged peat and sunshine mix...this isnt soil. I use peat based mix pro mix and always feed 5.9 to 6.3 and never have problems...

papa canna said:

Update: So this morning I gave them a good flushing with Guano company's Budswel compost tea, the water went in at about 6.5 and came out at about 6.4 People are always telling me to check my run off, but im not all too sure what I'm looking for when I do it. Now I can just wait and see how they respond. Im not sure how long something like this would take to see results.

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Checking runoff is useful to watch trends over time.

I check the ec of the runoff every time I water/fertilize. When I see the ec rise above the input solution I watch closely for signs of salt buildup or just lower the concentration and watch for the runoff to be more even again.

I don't check ph or adjust except to verify a new bag of potting mix is limed properly.