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Cann's Organic No-Till Garden

Discussion in 'Organics' started by Cann, Mar 15, 2013.


    Cann Well-Known Member

    So things have changed quite a bit round these parts in the last few months...a few months ago I had a sudden enlightenment and ditched the bottled nutes, bagged soil/supersoil, pH meter, and associated mythology. I am now able to apply principles of permaculture and no-till gardening/soil recycling into my indoor operation, whereas before I was of the mentality that I would fail miserably had I not maintained the proper pH and fed the right amount of bottled nutes etc, etc. Needless to say a lot has changed, and I am infinitely happier. So happy in fact that I would like to share with y'all so you can ditch the pH pen and bottled gunk too, and save yourself some hassle and money in the process!

    First I have to give a shoutout to Rrog, who was one of the first to make me think outside the current paradigm of cannabis growing, and look towards horticulture for my answers. Thank you very much kind sir :clap: you've helped more than you know. Also a shoutout to all those on ICmag who are the true visionaries in this field - cootz, gas, MM, and the whole gang...

    Now onto the goods. I am currently harvesting a cycle that was a bootleg mix of bagged soil and botanical/enzyme teas etc, but I don't feel happy enough about the results/purity to include it in this journal. As far as the "purity" of this new cycle - I do still use a few bottled products, but they are nothing like the bottled guanos etc I was using before. 99% of the bottled nutes at the hydro store are trash with awesome labels, but there are a few products that are truly worthwhile (although usually overpriced). I use ful-power, which is a fulvic acid concentrate made by BioAg. I have Agsil 16H, which is a potassium silicate powder that I mix with water to create something reminiscent of pro-tekt (protekt is just more expensive so I go with Agsil). I also have freeze dried aloe powder that I mix into my water. If I work hard I can source fresh aloe, or horsetail/nettle (for silica) - but often I don't have the time/need to do these things.

    So for the sake of simplicity I'll start from a few weeks ago when I took cuts from my mothers sans clonex (something I would've though was insane before). I was following a cloning method suggested by ClackamasCootz which is as follows:

    Mix 1 gal h2o with 1oz ful-power (fulvic acid), 2oz aloe, 1tsp potassium silicate. Soak your cuts in this mix for a few hours. Soak your rapidrooters (or another medium) in this mix for a few hours as well. When you get around to it, combine the plugs and cuts however you so choose and place them in your trays or whatever you use. Treat them like you would treat any other clone (mist/humidity, airflow, etc.) 10-14 days later you will have something that looks like this:

    IMG_0193.jpg IMG_0194.jpg IMG_0186.jpg IMG_0196.jpg IMG_0198.jpg roots on roots on roots

    This is what they look like a few days after being put into a "recycled" soil mix. During transplant I sprinkle the roots with mycorrhizae and once they are potted I water with aloe/fulpower/silica and give them an aloe foliar.

    IMG_0203.jpg IMG_0207.jpg IMG_0208.jpg IMG_0209.jpg

    These are by far the greenest/happiest clones I have EVER had. No transplant shock, no chlorosis, no wilting. Straight green and praying leaves the entire time. Needless to say I am never going to buy clonex again, and I will urge others to do the same. Next time I do this I am going to rub the stems inside of a fresh aloe filet right before the cuts go into rapidrooters - we'll see if it can get any better than this lol. I had to compost a bunch of cuts because I had too many! every single one rooted.

    Here is a quick shot of the veg room a few weeks ago after I sprayed with a neem/silica foliar. I'll post an updated pic later.

    My recently acquired genetics - The One x Blue Moon Rocks Bx1, and Blue Orca x NL#5/Nevilles Haze. Popped 5 beans of each, unfortunately one of the TOxBMR backcrosses didn't make it out of the rapid rooter. Upon examination the seed had cracked and then rotted...not sure what happened as it was in identical conditions to its brothers and sisters who all came up with no problem. Regardless, I'm searching for a keeper so it's not necessarily a bad thing to lose a weak plant. Survival of the fittest. Beans were inoculated with mycorrhizae and put in rapidrooters on 2/25 after a 16 hour soak in fulpower/aloe/coconut h2o. The first picture was taken on 2/10, the second picture about 10 minutes ago.
    IMG_0199.jpg IMG_0227.jpg

    More pictures and such later, gotta run. Peace :bigjoint:

    SpicySativa Well-Known Member

    Lookin' good, Cann! I'll be along for the ride.

    What size pot are you planning to use for your no-tills?

    Seems like we've had a very similar progression of ditching the bottles and moving on to truer forms of organics. I definitely will be recycling my most recent batch of soil (mixed entirely from scratch), but I don't think I'll be going no-till quite yet. Much more reading to do on that topic... Some day.

    Cann Well-Known Member

    I have a few 30gal smartpots, a few 10gal smartpots, and a bunch of 5 gal smartpots and airpots. I will definitely run the 30s and 10s as no-till, and a few of the 5's. If the tester 5's do well with no-till, I will no-till everything. I have seen folks get amazing results in 5 gal no-tills.

    oh and I also have a 45 gallon smartpot I might throw in there :) If im feeling up to lugging that bitch around the tent...otherwise its getting planted with veggies outdoors.

    Lights turn on in a few hrs so I'll snap pics of the current setup.

    and congrats on ditching the bottles! let me know if you have any questions about no-till, I'd be happy to answer them. And obviously you've found the money thread over on IC, not sure if you've read all 500+ pages yet LOL. it can be a bit daunting...but well worth it. kind of like a rite of passage for true organic heads :blsmoke:
    HapaHaole likes this.

    Snafu1236 Well-Known Member

    Nice! Subbed up my man!


    medical/420 Active Member

    Hey i think i wanna try a NO-Till method, haven't read about it yet. But, I had a plant is (subcools SUPER SOIL recipe) in 10 gallon contaner and it got a rotton stem, so I pulled it out and dug a hole big enough to transplant a 2 gallon contaer plant. now the plant i did that to is by far the biggest plant i got. so i wanna keep doing that, when i harvest a plant I wanna try to reuse the soil, Maybe feed a tea or a microbe product.

    If i can start reuseing my soil I will step up to 20-30 gallon contaners (i have been dumping my used soil in my garden 10-12 gallon twice a month over 240 gallons of soil a year is going to waste....... and at $25 abag that adds up fast.

    Cann Well-Known Member

    10-12 gallon twice a month over 240 gallons of soil a year is going to waste....... and at $25 abag that adds up fast.

    Holy shit...what are you paying $25 a bag for??? lol. I can help you turn that "waste" into amazing no-till soil, which you will never have to replace. Folks don't realize how cheap this can be if you are reusing soil for cycles and cycles. No more wasting $$$ on bottled nutes and bags of soil - invest that money in a good no-till soil and you will start raking in the savings.
    MustangStudFarm likes this.
    Rising Moon

    Rising Moon Well-Known Member

    Great thread Cann. Nothing but respect!

    (I rescued my buddies "used super soil" recently, score! 55 gallon trash drum full of "waste"...
    HapaHaole likes this.

    uromastyx Well-Known Member

    Looking good cann. What kinda potassium silicate are you using for the clones. I have the rest of the stuff and would like to give that method a try.

    VTMi'kmaq Well-Known Member

    scribed and hanging on yer leg lol!

    VTMi'kmaq Well-Known Member

    and they call it herbal love! 026.jpg So ive been sourcing fresh aloe by keeping them happy under my eye hortilux lol, i think theyre happy! I cant wait to follow this recipe and watch them flourish!

    Cann Well-Known Member

    Been workin in the room all night. Quick photo update.

    Sprayed a neem/silica foliar today. Watered the soil with a barley seed tea + aloe, silica, and ful-power. I was able to watch the leaves raise to praying position after a few hours in the room...pretty awesome stuff.

    Gods gift x OG kush


    4x4 flower tent - all recently transplanted into homemade soil (except the 1 plant finishing). everyone looking very happy


    No transplant shock when planting into this 30gal smartpot - the first shot was taken right after transplant, second shot today (48 hrs later). Gotta love healthy soil...look at those leaves pray

    IMG_0229.jpg IMG_0255.jpg

    An example of the evolution of canna-mulch. I will be planting clover into this ASAP.
    IMG_0233.jpg IMG_0257.jpg IMG_0264.jpg

    5 Ace of Spades cuts that I am running a soil experiment on. I will highlight the details of the experiment later. One of them got the barley seed tea tonight..first person to figure out which one gets a +rep lol.


    Happy green leaves


    Now time to crash out :bigjoint: night everyone. I promise i'll be back later to respond to y'all...
    HapaHaole likes this.
    Rising Moon

    Rising Moon Well-Known Member

    Nice Cann.

    Can't wait to see some clover undersown to those beautiful ladies.

    Are you thinking Dutch white?

    Or I also saw a new "micro" white clover that grows even smaller...

    VTMi'kmaq Well-Known Member

    my guess is farthest to the right cann but im a newb!

    Cann Well-Known Member

    where did you see that "micro" clover? I have crimson clover...which is great as a cover crop outdoors, but will get at least 2' tall. I am going to have to repeatedly chop it down as a cover crop indoors...although that isnt necessarily a bad thing. free mulch.

    heres a shot of half the veg tent. happy ladies
    Rising Moon

    Rising Moon Well-Known Member

    Nah man, crimson clover won't work well for that. It's an annual/biennial so it won't have a long life cycle, plus it won't like being chopped, and won't grow back strong. You want to use a perrienial clover like Dutch white or new Zealand white. Those grow low, can handle to be chopped whenever, and grow back strong and fast. Peaceful Valley has a good selection.

    The Crimson clover is a really great short term cover crop/green manure, but it's best used in situations where it can come to full flower, and be chopped. You could then plant into the stubble/mulch, or turn under the residue in a tillage system.

    It would be interesting to experiment with using a short term green manure indoors like this.. Recharge your soil with legumes after a crop and rotate through every pot in the garden.
    Joedank likes this.

    Cann Well-Known Member

    Funny you mention that, I was just looking at this: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5662840&postcount=95

    Thanks for the tips about crimson clover...i have grown it before outside so I know it gets big fairly quickly..figured it would be sketchy at best inside but worth a shot. luckily I havent sown seeds yet so I will go check out peaceful valley...

    Good stuff about the "spent" super soil lol...reminds me that I have a like 15 cuft of supersoil that I made a while ago when I thought it was a good idea lol...I've been thinking about cutting it with peat/aeration and planting veggies in it. Any idea how much I should scale it down? 50% SS, 25% peat, 25% aeration? maybe throw some more compost in there too...a little humus cant hurt. what do you think? I don't want to burn my veggies...
    Rising Moon

    Rising Moon Well-Known Member

    Your ratios sound good. If it were my garden I would cut it by 50% and use it for my heavier feeders (tomatoes, corn, cukes, peppers), but I may also be tempted to use it as a compost activator of sorts. Layering it in with fresh material as you build.

    Cann Well-Known Member

    3lbs of dutch white clover on the way :bigjoint: whats this "micro" clover you're talkin about? would love to check that out.

    VTMi'kmaq - it's the front left...but honestly between those 5 plants it was virtually impossible to distinguish...i was mostly just fucking around asking y'all lol. the front left and back right plants do seem to be a tiny bit more perky, not sure why that is.

    uromastyx - I use Agsil 16H for my potassium silicate - I used to have a bottle of pro-tekt but it ran out and I wanted a cheaper option.

    oh and rising moon, I mixed up a few pots of supersoil/peat/rice hulls at different ratios and potted a few pepper seedings I have. We'll see how they like it. One pot is 50% supersoil, 25% peat, 25% rice hulls - the other pot is around 70% supersoil, 15% peat, 15% rice hulls. wanted to push it on the supersoil percentage and see if I get any burning. if i get burning on peppers then I will know that sensitive plants will be destroyed lol. if this works then I have about 35cuft of soil for my veggie garden this year :bigjoint: hundreds of heirloom organic veggie seeds...and nothing but a long boring summer of relentless so-cal sun...and of course plenty of water. should be fun.

    this brings me to another question - how do y'all filter your hose water outside? or do you even bother? I don't have the time to hand water all my property and veggies...its too big and time consuming. I have a weird in-line filter that is made for RVs and such - says it will last 5 years but I don't know if I believe that...the local home depot has free water tests available, maybe I will take a sample in and see what is making it through the filter...

    the filter is connected to a gatorhyde hose w/ a brass nozzle..no poisonous plastic baking in the sun for me please.

    VTMi'kmaq Well-Known Member

    My mother loves what you guys are teaching me she was taken aback that i was this knowledgeable pertaining to this subject. My mother grows outdoor wildflowers, herbs, and everything holistic in her organic gardens Im asking her what she does with her hose cause she pulls out of an artesian well thats hard as rock water lol. She mentoined growing a stinging nettle in the same pot as my plants for a neetle herb symbiotic relationship it seems im curious!
    Rising Moon

    Rising Moon Well-Known Member

    Lol 3 pounds, you should be set for life! Or you could plant an acre or so. The micro clover is made for lawns, and it looks pretty sweet, but expensive. The Dutch white is really good too.

    Did you get the pre innoculated seeds? Or are you adding that as you plant?

    About the water, I've been mostly using captured rain water, but hose filters were on my list, because the Midwest weather isn't as
    predictable as it used to be.

    Good luck/news on the veggies.

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