Calmag? About to flower

Buba Blend

Well-Known Member
I learned to manage my garden from books. I had no experience even with house plants.

I have furthered this base grow book knowledge with tons of university ag and container gardening info and now light spectrum confirmation from the university of Utah and Michigan matches the old info in ed Rosenthals grow guide book and clarks marijuana Botany.

The best and easiest info to grasp for me was the education center on premier horticulture ( pro mix) website. Real crop production info and management guides and videos there. Just not for pot.

Anyway...

The point is the info is solid and doesn't really change like you would think from the forums. The reason to have runoff is to help wash away built up salts and the reason to measure it is to monitor trends in ec and ph so you know what your inputs do to the medium over time.

I think we often argue without realizing or communicating all the info about the methods.

It is important to know why. Blanket statements like "flushing is for toilets" are not helpful.

I have been having mag deficiencies for the first time in my system recently and the plants went calcium spotty too. Very frustrating. I check my ec every time but not my ph. I check that with new soil mix only usually and got comfortable.

I found that my well water has gone down from .3 to .2 ec this summer. I assumed I had a deficiency because of the less calcium and mag in the water.

Wrong! I checked runoff ph on a sick plant and it was over 7. Bright medium green with the gh drops. It is always army green or lime green with ocean forest and my nutes and water so....

Higher ph means I was feeding too little. The nutes balance out the water, buffer and plant uptake from raising the ph too much over time.

The plants in question are larger and vegged longer than I usually do. The were hungry and I let it progress. Paranoid I would over feed with such a high dose I don't usually give.

The lower water hardness had nothing to do with it. I leached the pots with fresh well water and raised the fertilizer strength and the plants started to heal the next watering.

They had stalled but will finish fine now.

I will monitor ph more often with the ec of my runoff. And I write it all down to review later.

And watch to see if I will have the .2 water and need more feed for other plants. By the runoff ph. And ppm.


Sorry for the super long post. I'm really high from waking and baking. :-)
Not to long, some exc info. Already saved the web site to check it out. Will have to reread your full post later.
This caught my eye:
Higher ph means I was feeding too little. The nutes balance out the water, buffer and plant uptake from raising the ph too much over time.

I did some recent slurry tests but have no records on runoff or ppms of run off.
Before I water today I'm going to get some more slurry test soil.
All the plants I plan on watering today need cal mag+ and are getting some gypsum also.
I'm going to keep one ro only today to see what goes in and what comes out ph and ppm's. I'll do it with the others but they must get cal mag today. In my side by side all ffof plants developed different levels of calcium deficiency, I feel like mine are close to it or I might just be paranoid but the ro only ended recently between week 4-5, next grow I'll supplement cal/mag. Thinking of doing a couple of plants my old way. 70% ro 30% tap, whatever makes 150-200ppms and not use cal mag on those.
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
I learned to manage my garden from books. I had no experience even with house plants.

I have furthered this base grow book knowledge with tons of university ag and container gardening info and now light spectrum confirmation from the university of Utah and Michigan matches the old info in ed Rosenthals grow guide book and clarks marijuana Botany.

The best and easiest info to grasp for me was the education center on premier horticulture ( pro mix) website. Real crop production info and management guides and videos there. Just not for pot.

Anyway...

The point is the info is solid and doesn't really change like you would think from the forums. The reason to have runoff is to help wash away built up salts and the reason to measure it is to monitor trends in ec and ph so you know what your inputs do to the medium over time.

I think we often argue without realizing or communicating all the info about the methods.

It is important to know why. Blanket statements like "flushing is for toilets" are not helpful.

I have been having mag deficiencies for the first time in my system recently and the plants went calcium spotty too. Very frustrating. I check my ec every time but not my ph. I check that with new soil mix only usually and got comfortable.

I found that my well water has gone down from .3 to .2 ec this summer. I assumed I had a deficiency because of the less calcium and mag in the water.

Wrong! I checked runoff ph on a sick plant and it was over 7. Bright medium green with the gh drops. It is always army green or lime green with ocean forest and my nutes and water so....

Higher ph means I was feeding too little. The nutes balance out the water, buffer and plant uptake from raising the ph too much over time.

The plants in question are larger and vegged longer than I usually do. The were hungry and I let it progress. Paranoid I would over feed with such a high dose I don't usually give.

The lower water hardness had nothing to do with it. I leached the pots with fresh well water and raised the fertilizer strength and the plants started to heal the next watering.

They had stalled but will finish fine now.

I will monitor ph more often with the ec of my runoff. And I write it all down to review later.

And watch to see if I will have the .2 water and need more feed for other plants. By the runoff ph. And ppm.


Sorry for the super long post. I'm really high from waking and baking. :-)
Its just that for ph run off is not a good gauge. The output is not relative to input. Many things in the soil can effect run off ph readings.

When I tell people to do a slurry test that comes from actual ag sites and universities.
 
Last edited:

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Not to long, some exc info. Already saved the web site to check it out. Will have to reread your full post later.
This caught my eye:
Higher ph means I was feeding too little. The nutes balance out the water, buffer and plant uptake from raising the ph too much over time.

I did some recent slurry tests but have no records on runoff or ppms of run off.
Before I water today I'm going to get some more slurry test soil.
All the plants I plan on watering today need cal mag+ and are getting some gypsum also.
I'm going to keep one ro only today to see what goes in and what comes out ph and ppm's. I'll do it with the others but they must get cal mag today. In my side by side all ffof plants developed different levels of calcium deficiency, I feel like mine are close to it or I might just be paranoid but the ro only ended recently between week 4-5, next grow I'll supplement cal/mag. Thinking of doing a couple of plants my old way. 70% ro 30% tap, whatever makes 150-200ppms and not use cal mag on those.

If I see a trend of mag or cal deficiency because of my softer water I will ad a mil or 2 of cal mag to get the ppm's up to 150.

Same difference. Many greenhouses mix tap and ro to get the right alkalinity like you are saying.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Its just that for ph run off is not a good gauge. The output is not relative to input. Many things in the soil can effect run off ph readings.

When I tell people to do a slurry test that comes from actual at sites and universities.

I agree. Slurry test is much more accurate. Thing is if the buffers are in place and you know your garden and inputs you can monitor runoff to see if the ph is stable or rising or falling. And I can check every 2-3 days in flower.

I learned it is important to do it the same way every time. I use the first cup of runoff after soaking half of the gallon I add to my 3 gallon pots.

When I see a deficiency or toxicity the runoff usually shows a high ppm or a bad ph. I trust the method. And it's convenient.

If I was making my own soil I would use the slurry method up front to be sure. For sure. :-)
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
I agree. Slurry test is much more accurate. Thing is if the buffers are in place and you know your garden and inputs you can monitor runoff to see if the ph is stable or rising or falling. And I can check every 2-3 days in flower.

I learned it is important to do it the same way every time. I use the first cup of runoff after soaking half of the gallon I add to my 3 gallon pots.

When I see a deficiency or toxicity the runoff usually shows a high ppm or a bad ph. I trust the method. And it's convenient.

If I was making my own soil I would use the slurry method up front to be sure. For sure. :-)
Not saying that the run off is always wrong or inaccurate. It very well may be a good guide for certain mediums and setup.

In general I wouldn't reccomned it.
 

Buba Blend

Well-Known Member
Before I started this grow I did a slurry test with my soil and ffof. Mine was 7 ph, ffof was about a 6 ph.
I have some results from the ro plant today in my soil.

All plants given the slurry test in my soil today have a ph of 7.
The ro water is 20 ppm's and has a ph of 6.
Run off ph is 7. Identical next to the slurry sample ( took pics).
PPM's of run off 1677 ppm's.

The slurry test for this plant was extracted after not being watered for 12 days.
This is a small plants that was transplanted 1 week into flowering from a 6" clay pot to 3 gallon plastic pot.
This plant was transplanted 7-17-17.
1st watering with ro 7-28-17.
2nd with ro 8-5-17.
3rd watering was today with ro.
Approx 5 weeks into flowering.

Info on this grow can be found here:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/plants-in-my-1st-soil-recipe-are-still-alive-after-5-days.945380/
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
Funny you mentioned run off. My opinion on run off went from thinking it was useful 2 years ago, to useless in the past 6 months to possibly useful again when used right and you understand where the run off ph should be if you know your soil. Not sure yet if it is useful.

I had a theory before as to why so much fighting takes place on this site, wasn't a very good one.
Here is a new one.
I notice my opinion has changed on so many things. Flushing, fertilizing, watering, PH, run off, the cause of problems. All of these

things, we are all going through our changing positions at different paces and times and then clash with other opinions.
yep. its all good though. even just the water quality/source can make all the difference to a grower trying to copy a result from some other supply. every aspect of our habit has a part in play, its why same clones taste different in a different room, and why cal/mag additives kill my experience, etc.......its great to hear all the stories though, subjective as they are. its a good idea to never discard any used supplies in the grow room. every clamp, hose, tool...even if not used now....might be someday once again....lived it myself, near full circle, almost threw away all my five gallon pails ......because they had holes in them.......:P
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
I frown when I see more than a drop of water in the run off tray the next day. just me, I hate water under the bucket.
not always but in flower my four gallons of soil take one gallon of water when dry to the bottom. this drips two drops in time, and I'm on it .....
 

grassy007

Well-Known Member
I too just bought some Cali-Magic (Techniflora) because I was using RO water. The leaf tips were turning white. After adding the Cal-Mag, the new leaves aren't showing much white tips anymore. BTW, if you're thinking of buying Bontonicare's Cal-Mag, there have been reports of the solution being cloudy with sediment. Do not use it, return it. Cal-Mag of any kind should be translucent and look something like apple juice.
 

SchweeDubz

Well-Known Member
I honestly don't know what to do. I'm not even sure if this is a cal-mag issue honestly. I know the brown dots are calcium but this yellow discoloring is only on one plant and it seems quite bad.

The advice on this thread ranges quite a bit. Hard to say who knows what they are talking about or who even read through my original post.
 

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whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
yep. its all good though. even just the water quality/source can make all the difference to a grower trying to copy a result from some other supply. every aspect of our habit has a part in play, its why same clones taste different in a different room, and why cal/mag additives kill my experience, etc.......its great to hear all the stories though, subjective as they are. its a good idea to never discard any used supplies in the grow room. every clamp, hose, tool...even if not used now....might be someday once again....lived it myself, near full circle, almost threw away all my five gallon pails ......because they had holes in them.......:P
I can't use my tap water. Its municipal water. I've tried letting it sit out. It doesn't work. Every time I try to use it my plants go to crap.

I collect rain water.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
I frown when I see more than a drop of water in the run off tray the next day. just me, I hate water under the bucket.
not always but in flower my four gallons of soil take one gallon of water when dry to the bottom. this drips two drops in time, and I'm on it .....

I have no choice with bottled nutrients and well water to use runoff to help with salt buildup. But the benefit is the control I get. Organic base and hydroponic control during flower.

I guess there is no need with dry compost based ferts like you use. I have seen organic growers in vids with no trays under their pots. They just know how much to water.
 

Bombattak

Member
People that say you are overwatering are generally full of shit. Ask them to explain hydroponics, lol. The root issue is a soil that is not structured properly to allow good aeration and water retention.
Cmon man... We all know in soil you can overwatering. Dont start an useless debate over here...
 
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