abe supercro
Well-Known Member
13.88$/oz damn that's low for silver!
Buying silver or gold, where do you buy from?
- Thread starter jjfw
- Start date
outlier
Well-Known Member
Hot Diggity! Absolutely and thanks mate. I have been trading for over a decade and was taught by an old CME pit trader. Damn did that dude have some cracker stories about his days in there.
No arguments here that markets are manipulated. Can't hate the player though! I'm just a small little fish in a big, big fucking sea
Last edited:
Corso312
Well-Known Member
Whoa, you must be of the suckers that took a bath on betting high. And I'll post wherever I feel like jerkoff.. Peace n love !
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Gold and Silver will continue to go lower...just how much...who knows. Just keep stacking
Oh...and BTW. The Fed will NEVER raise rates...you can count on that.
Janet can jabber all she wants about raising rates but in the end, she is just saying what she is told to say. Raising rates is not in the cards. Negative rates, outright theft and massive QE is what is coming.
Last edited:
Carolina Dream'n
Well-Known Member
Load up on the gold here soon. Sit on it for 10 years and make an absolute killing. The price will drive back up eventually.
kingzt
Well-Known Member
I wish I would of waited! I have bought silver and gold both at highs and throughout their bear markets. How can't the fed raise the rates. I'm sick of this QE when will people realize will you have an unlimited supply of money chasing a finite amount of goods it messes up the simple supply and demand. Any who I am nervous that gold was inflated too high by market manipulation and is slowly coming back. I hope it's not true and will probably hold hard assets until I'm six feet under.
TheFuture
Well-Known Member
I consider gold and silver to be pretty good capital retaining instruments for the long term. If you can buy really low for whatever reason it would be safe to assume that is the price went lower you would be reluctant to sell. If the price went high enough you can choose to sell all your silver if all profit but to EXPECT that to happen is gambling. I say this having used the method you describe to flip some physical assets. I rode the 2010-2012 wave of anticipation for the end of the world. I didn't expect the end of the world but I had been saving a bunch of silver and when people got scared and the price of silver and gold went up past $30/oz what I paid for it I sold, sold, sold. When the fears subsided and people needed money for Christmas holidays, silver was at $17 and I was all buy buy buy. I don't really deal with gold, just silver because I can afford more of it and that just feels better. Its good to have to touch and feel good about, but really thats about it. I know a man personally who died with a footlocker filled with silver bars... what good did that box do for him with no family to give it to? I'm sure it went to the state.
Investing is the art of making your money make more money for you. Being that gold and silver are not as liquid as cash, you can only make gains if the markets go up which could be completely due to unforeseen market manipulation. Same thing with stocks. The best thing to do if you are going to buy Ag and Au is to stockpile it until you can flip it to a 20% down payment on an investment real estate deal. At the very least look for an 8% capitalization rate with preference around the 17% range if you can find it.
Cap rate = Net Operating Income / Current Market Value
Let's say you find an investment property for $100,000 that a retiring landlord just wants to get rid of. He lists it on forsalebyowner.com with little information but you are browsing at 8pm and the ad pops up. You're fortunate enough to be the first person to make an offer. You look at the property that night and determine the building is sound and worthy of investment. There are two tenants on long-term leases (2-year) for $700 each, and you pay for water which averages about $50 per unit. The property grosses $1,300 a month or $15,600 a year operating income. At $80,000 financed and $20,000 down, on a 15 year term at 4% interest is $591 per month mortgage and lets say extra insurance costs $100. Therefore $1,300 - $691 = $609 net monthly operating income, $7,308 yearly. If you didn't want to deal with the property itself you can tack on another 20% in fees for property management -- well worth it.
$7,308 / $100,000 = 0.073% Capitalization rate with 20% equity. You spent $20,000 for the cash down payment and are receiving $7,308 yearly so your cash on cash return is 0.365%. There is no cash on cash return for physical gold and silver.
You could pay $500 extra on monthly payments for a total of $1091 monthly and pay off the loan in its' entirety within 7 years. During those seven years you would still have $2,508 per year in net income which would yield a mere 0.025% and cash on cash return of 0.125%, but that is still far better returns than you could expect with gold unless you are lucky and have good timing. Its WAY better than a bank savings account yielding 0.0025%. After those "miserable" seven lean years, you would essentially have a cap rate of 0.156%. You would have a cash on cash return of 0.78% for the 8th year and your initial down payment would have been paid back in.
If that property is bringing in even just $100 a month that is still a successful investment property. You could buy junky 50k ghetto homes with 10% down, slap $10,000 of work into some of them and pay a $250 mortgage to charge $450 on. Don't pay any utilities and you are grossing $200 a month which STILL gets you a 0.12% cash on cash return. Or be a slumlord and dont do shit to your properties and charge $600 for a cash on cash return as high as 0.72%.
The possibilities are endless. That's my argument for Real Estate Investing vs. Gold and Silver physical holding.
Investing is the art of making your money make more money for you. Being that gold and silver are not as liquid as cash, you can only make gains if the markets go up which could be completely due to unforeseen market manipulation. Same thing with stocks. The best thing to do if you are going to buy Ag and Au is to stockpile it until you can flip it to a 20% down payment on an investment real estate deal. At the very least look for an 8% capitalization rate with preference around the 17% range if you can find it.
Cap rate = Net Operating Income / Current Market Value
Let's say you find an investment property for $100,000 that a retiring landlord just wants to get rid of. He lists it on forsalebyowner.com with little information but you are browsing at 8pm and the ad pops up. You're fortunate enough to be the first person to make an offer. You look at the property that night and determine the building is sound and worthy of investment. There are two tenants on long-term leases (2-year) for $700 each, and you pay for water which averages about $50 per unit. The property grosses $1,300 a month or $15,600 a year operating income. At $80,000 financed and $20,000 down, on a 15 year term at 4% interest is $591 per month mortgage and lets say extra insurance costs $100. Therefore $1,300 - $691 = $609 net monthly operating income, $7,308 yearly. If you didn't want to deal with the property itself you can tack on another 20% in fees for property management -- well worth it.
$7,308 / $100,000 = 0.073% Capitalization rate with 20% equity. You spent $20,000 for the cash down payment and are receiving $7,308 yearly so your cash on cash return is 0.365%. There is no cash on cash return for physical gold and silver.
You could pay $500 extra on monthly payments for a total of $1091 monthly and pay off the loan in its' entirety within 7 years. During those seven years you would still have $2,508 per year in net income which would yield a mere 0.025% and cash on cash return of 0.125%, but that is still far better returns than you could expect with gold unless you are lucky and have good timing. Its WAY better than a bank savings account yielding 0.0025%. After those "miserable" seven lean years, you would essentially have a cap rate of 0.156%. You would have a cash on cash return of 0.78% for the 8th year and your initial down payment would have been paid back in.
If that property is bringing in even just $100 a month that is still a successful investment property. You could buy junky 50k ghetto homes with 10% down, slap $10,000 of work into some of them and pay a $250 mortgage to charge $450 on. Don't pay any utilities and you are grossing $200 a month which STILL gets you a 0.12% cash on cash return. Or be a slumlord and dont do shit to your properties and charge $600 for a cash on cash return as high as 0.72%.
The possibilities are endless. That's my argument for Real Estate Investing vs. Gold and Silver physical holding.
kingzt
Well-Known Member
Thanks man for the solid advice, I'm always looking for encouraging advice from like minded individuals. My uncle has apartments that he's making great money on. But gold and silver I still believe is a solid hedge and it's all about diversification. So your example you gave, if your only netting $7,300 what would you suggest someone/entrepreneur do for more cash flow. With $20,000 you could go buy landscape equipment and start a small grass cutting business to net more than that.
TheFuture
Well-Known Member
Physical Assets are great for diversification. I am definitely not arguing to not buy silver because I still recommend buying silver below $20/oz all day every day.
Going with your example of the Lawn Care business, you would still have to accumulate the $20,000 initial startup, with which that amount will not get you very far. You would at the least need a truck, a weed eater and a lawn mower, the expenses to run the business, the payroll to employ yourself and others, and then you would have to be there in order to make the business profitable. In my mind, an employee is someone who works for a business and an investor is he who owns the business. The investor can run a business but if he cannot leave the job and it run itself, he is not really a business owner but a specialist who owns his own job and a lot of business debt.
A real estate investor, using the $20,000 as a down payment on an income property whether residential, industrial or commercial, gains passive income whether or not they come to work. If a tenant is in the house and the business owner is in Aruba, he will still receive monthly rent checks. If the real estate investor has set up adequate insurance, escrow, and hires a reputable property management to take care of the property needs, this job requires increasingly less "work."
For more cash flow I would first create a budget which allocates every cent of your paycheck money and review it every day. Not only do I suggest this I do it right now. Then, optimize your bill payment routine so that you have less payment "gluts" that make you feel like you are fat at one end of the month and starving at the other. Then, create a list of debts that are in order of smallest to largest and pay them off with extra large payments. Along with my cannabis, I also use the spare light coming off that 1000w to grow Radishes, Bibb lettuce, Tomato Starts, etc. to offset my food expenses. You will find that when you are growing your own food indoors with the same care as your cannabis plants that you eat less because its so damn full of nutrients.
To add to cashflow, take a good inventory of your knowledge, skills, and abilities. Determine what you know a ton about, what you know little about, what you feel you specialize in, and things you desire and have a passion to do. Find the things that appeal to you the most and then go to anywhere that has anything to do with that subject and volunteer. I have a coffee shop. At first, i didn't have a coffee shop. I knew how to make coffee but I never used an espresso machine, and I needed Barista experience. So I nagged the owner of a coffee shop I frequented regularly for a job and she never had the payroll. My schedule opened up some, so i offered to volunteer between 5am and 7am before I had to go to work. This enabled me to gain much needed experience while giving the business owner the morning family time with her small child she so desperately needed. I did not get paid for that job but because I was there for myself and I expressed the passion inside to own a coffee shop, and I desired to truly give the customers what they deserved in an espresso based beverage, I averaged $25 a day in tips for 2 hours work, essentially $12.50 an hour. Then, through networking with customers I saw regularly I found employment which was $4 higher than the job I was currently at so I switched jobs. Through fate, that job connected me with investors in another job which offered me $3 more than it did, so i moved after management turned sour. If I didn't volunteer, I don't feel this chain of events would have happened. Volunteering is essentially stoking the stove of life to bring forth heat. You have to put wood in, in order to get fire and thus heat.
In order to create more cashflow for myself:
I work a regular full-time going nowhere wage job like everyone else. I make $15 an hour while producing hundreds of thousands of dollars and endure abuse as much as anyone.
I am a part-time coffee business owner, selling 1lb packages of my own beans. This is slowly financing itself towards the rest of the business expenses with very little overhead.
I am a real estate investor with a property that nets me a little under $200 a month while still living in an apartment. (Looking for my first live-in house at the moment.)
I am an authorized reseller of wholesale agricultural supplies and equipment which I can use to solve problems when consulting. I don't have to push items so much as say here is what you need for this.
I am an agricultural consultant specializing in intensive controlled environment agricultural production. I usually get paid a $2,000 retainer for 20 hours to tell people how to do things and what they are doing wrong.
I run several blogs with pay per click and per page advertising income. These run the gamut of my hobbies and experiences. For instance; traveling, cannabis cultivation, medieval armor-smithing, salt water aquarium keeping, and more! I simply have to write a paragraph or three every couple of days to keep everything fresh. It is easy to come home and whine about some issue you had at work. It is totally a different thing altogether to come home and blog about that same problem and inform others how to avoid it in the first place, while attracting more visitors to your blog to generate advertising revenue.
I develop grows and greenhouses for other companies. For that same $2,000 retainer as above, I can get with major manufacturers and my supplier to get an entire setup planned.
I shovel snow during the winter (free for the elderly) mostly for advertising and traditional grassroots approach to word of mouth marketing.
I sell items on eBay. Anytime I am out and see a good deal on ANYTHING I can resell for more than 20% markup, whether that be a retail sale item, something from a pawn shop, another eBay item, whatever. I am a prospector and pull minerals out of the ground for zero dollars as a hobby and sell 1" specimens for $300.
My current project is starting up a farm as a main source of revenue. I am combining all those income streams to eliminate debt and focus on filling up that house down payment. With many marginal income streams I can combine them into quite a bit of income, mostly passive. When business in one area is lacking I can switch gears to another. When direct income is down, passive income is there as a safety net. The main purpose of the farm is to build assets with which to buy other assets. By this definition I mean an asset is ANYTHING that puts more money into your pocket than it takes out. Eventually i will hire and train others to run the key positions of the businesses so I don't have to and my job is to talk to other suits.
One caveat; none of this happened overnight. What I am doing is the result of a quest that I am now almost 7 years into. I have done everything in stages. Starting a business is hard if you think about everything you need to do all at once, but if you break it up into one step a day you will have completed 365 steps in a year. You will have done everything you needed to do well before the 90th day.
Then, its like growing cannabis. Essentially you know what to do but you get better with more experience as each day passes. Sure you can fail, but if you pay attention and plan accordingly, you'll find its just like anything else.
Opportunities are a dime a dozen. You just have to train your mind's eye to see them, and then have the courage to act immediately because opportunities are as fleeting as steam from a tea kettle and disappear just as fast. The best part about being a human is that "If your mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve." You can create your own opportunities to your very advantage and liking if you should be so bold as to DO.
By the way, I had my very own first business doing lawn care as a 15 year old kid. I paid an 18 year old to drive my trailer on my route and paid my friend to run the weed eater while I ran the zero turn mower I financed with proceeds from many hours of push mowing. I quit that because I had bad allergies and it just sucked. Haha!
Going with your example of the Lawn Care business, you would still have to accumulate the $20,000 initial startup, with which that amount will not get you very far. You would at the least need a truck, a weed eater and a lawn mower, the expenses to run the business, the payroll to employ yourself and others, and then you would have to be there in order to make the business profitable. In my mind, an employee is someone who works for a business and an investor is he who owns the business. The investor can run a business but if he cannot leave the job and it run itself, he is not really a business owner but a specialist who owns his own job and a lot of business debt.
A real estate investor, using the $20,000 as a down payment on an income property whether residential, industrial or commercial, gains passive income whether or not they come to work. If a tenant is in the house and the business owner is in Aruba, he will still receive monthly rent checks. If the real estate investor has set up adequate insurance, escrow, and hires a reputable property management to take care of the property needs, this job requires increasingly less "work."
For more cash flow I would first create a budget which allocates every cent of your paycheck money and review it every day. Not only do I suggest this I do it right now. Then, optimize your bill payment routine so that you have less payment "gluts" that make you feel like you are fat at one end of the month and starving at the other. Then, create a list of debts that are in order of smallest to largest and pay them off with extra large payments. Along with my cannabis, I also use the spare light coming off that 1000w to grow Radishes, Bibb lettuce, Tomato Starts, etc. to offset my food expenses. You will find that when you are growing your own food indoors with the same care as your cannabis plants that you eat less because its so damn full of nutrients.
To add to cashflow, take a good inventory of your knowledge, skills, and abilities. Determine what you know a ton about, what you know little about, what you feel you specialize in, and things you desire and have a passion to do. Find the things that appeal to you the most and then go to anywhere that has anything to do with that subject and volunteer. I have a coffee shop. At first, i didn't have a coffee shop. I knew how to make coffee but I never used an espresso machine, and I needed Barista experience. So I nagged the owner of a coffee shop I frequented regularly for a job and she never had the payroll. My schedule opened up some, so i offered to volunteer between 5am and 7am before I had to go to work. This enabled me to gain much needed experience while giving the business owner the morning family time with her small child she so desperately needed. I did not get paid for that job but because I was there for myself and I expressed the passion inside to own a coffee shop, and I desired to truly give the customers what they deserved in an espresso based beverage, I averaged $25 a day in tips for 2 hours work, essentially $12.50 an hour. Then, through networking with customers I saw regularly I found employment which was $4 higher than the job I was currently at so I switched jobs. Through fate, that job connected me with investors in another job which offered me $3 more than it did, so i moved after management turned sour. If I didn't volunteer, I don't feel this chain of events would have happened. Volunteering is essentially stoking the stove of life to bring forth heat. You have to put wood in, in order to get fire and thus heat.
In order to create more cashflow for myself:
I work a regular full-time going nowhere wage job like everyone else. I make $15 an hour while producing hundreds of thousands of dollars and endure abuse as much as anyone.
I am a part-time coffee business owner, selling 1lb packages of my own beans. This is slowly financing itself towards the rest of the business expenses with very little overhead.
I am a real estate investor with a property that nets me a little under $200 a month while still living in an apartment. (Looking for my first live-in house at the moment.)
I am an authorized reseller of wholesale agricultural supplies and equipment which I can use to solve problems when consulting. I don't have to push items so much as say here is what you need for this.
I am an agricultural consultant specializing in intensive controlled environment agricultural production. I usually get paid a $2,000 retainer for 20 hours to tell people how to do things and what they are doing wrong.
I run several blogs with pay per click and per page advertising income. These run the gamut of my hobbies and experiences. For instance; traveling, cannabis cultivation, medieval armor-smithing, salt water aquarium keeping, and more! I simply have to write a paragraph or three every couple of days to keep everything fresh. It is easy to come home and whine about some issue you had at work. It is totally a different thing altogether to come home and blog about that same problem and inform others how to avoid it in the first place, while attracting more visitors to your blog to generate advertising revenue.
I develop grows and greenhouses for other companies. For that same $2,000 retainer as above, I can get with major manufacturers and my supplier to get an entire setup planned.
I shovel snow during the winter (free for the elderly) mostly for advertising and traditional grassroots approach to word of mouth marketing.
I sell items on eBay. Anytime I am out and see a good deal on ANYTHING I can resell for more than 20% markup, whether that be a retail sale item, something from a pawn shop, another eBay item, whatever. I am a prospector and pull minerals out of the ground for zero dollars as a hobby and sell 1" specimens for $300.
My current project is starting up a farm as a main source of revenue. I am combining all those income streams to eliminate debt and focus on filling up that house down payment. With many marginal income streams I can combine them into quite a bit of income, mostly passive. When business in one area is lacking I can switch gears to another. When direct income is down, passive income is there as a safety net. The main purpose of the farm is to build assets with which to buy other assets. By this definition I mean an asset is ANYTHING that puts more money into your pocket than it takes out. Eventually i will hire and train others to run the key positions of the businesses so I don't have to and my job is to talk to other suits.
One caveat; none of this happened overnight. What I am doing is the result of a quest that I am now almost 7 years into. I have done everything in stages. Starting a business is hard if you think about everything you need to do all at once, but if you break it up into one step a day you will have completed 365 steps in a year. You will have done everything you needed to do well before the 90th day.
Then, its like growing cannabis. Essentially you know what to do but you get better with more experience as each day passes. Sure you can fail, but if you pay attention and plan accordingly, you'll find its just like anything else.
Opportunities are a dime a dozen. You just have to train your mind's eye to see them, and then have the courage to act immediately because opportunities are as fleeting as steam from a tea kettle and disappear just as fast. The best part about being a human is that "If your mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve." You can create your own opportunities to your very advantage and liking if you should be so bold as to DO.
By the way, I had my very own first business doing lawn care as a 15 year old kid. I paid an 18 year old to drive my trailer on my route and paid my friend to run the weed eater while I ran the zero turn mower I financed with proceeds from many hours of push mowing. I quit that because I had bad allergies and it just sucked. Haha!
Last edited:
kingzt
Well-Known Member
@TheFuture Thanks for you time and laying that out for me, it seems like your headed in the right place. It feels good to be self employed. Currently my only income is from this industry and would like to diversify like yourself. I was thinking about setting up a little greenhouse in the back yard to grow flowers and sell them at farmer's markets during my slow days in the summer. I find it easy to grow plants around the house so why not do something I have knowledge in make some cash.
Being self employed is a wonderful thing but being scorned for being in this industry and not having a job might lead me to being a paper pusher. Not complaining by all means I just don't want to put myself creating wealth for others while trading my time I'll never get back. Any who it's been a pleasure chatting it up with you, if you need an investor or partner; lets talk!
Being self employed is a wonderful thing but being scorned for being in this industry and not having a job might lead me to being a paper pusher. Not complaining by all means I just don't want to put myself creating wealth for others while trading my time I'll never get back. Any who it's been a pleasure chatting it up with you, if you need an investor or partner; lets talk!
TheFuture
Well-Known Member
Tomatoes grow pretty much the exact same as cannabis. If you grow the two together using the same nutrients, the tomato plant has fruit and visible yellow flowers which tell you that something is needed. In addition, as a companion plant, tomato fruits give off Ethylene Gas which is a known ripening hormone which would stiffen up your bud as well. Tomatoes smell far more pungent than marijuana and can also be used to cover the smell.
You can grow determinate bushing tomatoes in your home Cannabis grow and get about 1-2 lbs per plant on a regular schedule. The best choice is to grow grape tomatoes. Buy a case of 600 1-pint cool-pak clamshells for $86.00 ($0.14 ea), make some "KingzTomatoes" labels and get them printed for $140 per 5000 ($0.03ea) and sell each pint for $2.99 from your car or go to the Farmer's Market. If you plant a new tomato plant every week to your desired production capacity, each plant can produce about $12.00 of tomatoes (4 pints?) and you have succession plants to replace bushes that start under-producing. The fertilizer and pesticide cost would be $400 per year of indoor growing. 10 plants: Total COGS for a year worth of indoor growing is $626. Total possible gross income $5,520 per year. Factor in your electricity cost and however much you spend in gas driving your tomatoes around to get a more accurate number.
Using this model, you can grow some weed and harvest 10 plants worth of tomatoes every week or two for a side gross income of about $240-$480 a month with a COGS of $350 per season. I promise you if you needed to you can sell tomatoes door to door or directly to local restaurants. Once you have the money to set up that little "Harbor Freight Greenhouse" you can increase your production to maybe 25 plants total with the greenhouse being the "outdoor" extension.
I will always try to facilitate helping someone to produce for themselves, create their own business and job, and to be their own boss. This model explained is really a pretty big stretch since you would need to efficiently place your 10 plants (as I see them, 3 gallon smartpots with bushing cherry tomato plants in them no more than 5' tall.) under your light and to be realistic you would need to use an entire spare room. Your income from the tomatoes may be small initially especially compared to the other crop but tomatoes are 100% legal and will always be. You can eat them yourself which offsets your grocery bill. If you eat just 4 cherry tomatoes fresh off the vine, it is like drinking TWO 8-hour energy drinks you get so much energy. Eventually, you will be giving away tomatoes, grandmas will be coming to YOU to buy them before they are ready, and you will have a demand for your tomatoes.
ESPECIALLY during the winter.
I say this not having any tomatoes growing currently. However, I am going to go plant some tomatoes today just so I can get a new thread started to illustrate this example. Goog God I am running out of space.
TheFuture
Well-Known Member
If you wanted to do production tomatoes yes a greenhouse is where it is at. I'm simply talking adding 10 plants to your indoor grow to supplement your income and decrease the size of the grocery list by one item. You aren't losing money since you already have the lights for the cannabis. That is, assuming you have the space for it. Which in my case I do.