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Buds quality LEDs VS HPS

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by olsqueak, Nov 16, 2017.

  1.  
    Chunky Stool

    Chunky Stool Well-Known Member

    I think everyone is a little defensive of their grow preferences. Everything from type of lighting, spectrum, intensity, airflow, humidity, nutrients, etc...
    A buddy of mine constantly lectures me about how random my "grow style" is, and he almost flipped out when I told him that I top-dressed with a little insect frass after transplanting a batch from solos.
    "There you go again - Introducing a new variable! You'll never get anything dialed in."

    Is he right? Should I resist the urge to supplement when it feels right? (Plants are digging the frass BTW)

    I have grown some serious dank in my day. :cool:

    But I've also grown a fair amount of "meh". :?
     
    mr. childs, genuity and Buba Blend like this.
  2.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Here are the results of some more light testing.

    The second link is just the rest of the info from the test. The first link a synopsis.

    They mention how led is going to be customized to even determine the size of leaves in seedlings eventually.

    While we are debating a bunch of oversimplified information to help small light builders sell what will be old tech in minutes the university is figuring out how to grow plants exactly as they want using specific colored lights.

    There will be professional customized specific led Grow lights in no time as the industry standard.

    Or even customizable for specific crops or size and shape.




    Also some real information on green light here.


    http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/green_light_is_it_important_for_plant_growth


    http://www.greenhousegrower.com/production/plant-culture/growing-seedlings-under-leds-part-two/
     
  3.  
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    No more fighting for me, lets see how I do. lol
    Even if I get insulted not gonna get bothered by it.

    For the record, someone said I can't even spell Buba.
    Buba is not misspelled.
    It has nothing to do with an MJ strain.
    My name is Bill. I have a niece that called me Uncle Bubba.
    She gave me a card one time at the age of 5 or 6, not sure.
    It was to Uncle Buba and it stuck.
    Buba Blend is what I called my weed after my 1st harvest in the 90's.
    :peace:
     
    nfhiggs, mr. childs and ttystikk like this.
  4.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    It's already been done by 'amateurs'.
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
  5.  
    Greengenes707

    Greengenes707 Well-Known Member

    "Differences in radiation quality from the six most common electric lamps have little effect on photosynthetic rate. Radiation quality primarily alters growth because of changes in branching or internode elongation, which change radiation absorption. Growth and yield in wheat appear to be insensitive to radiation quality. Growth and yield in soybeans can be slightly increased under high pressure sodium lamps compared to metal halide lamps, in spite of greatly reduced chlorophyll concentrations under HPS lamps. Daily integrated photosynthetic photon flux (mol m-2 d-1) most directly determines leaf anatomy and growth. Photosynthetic photon flux levels of 800 μmol m-2 s-1 are adequate to simulate field daily-integrated PPF levels for both short and long day plants, but plant canopies can benefit from much higher PPF levels."


    http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/1.5 Bugbee/Bugbee text.htm
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
  6.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    Why don’t you ever actually say anything?
     
  7.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    Until recently, it has seemed like you didn't want to listen, just argue.
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
  8.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    Spectrum!
     
  9.  
    TacoMac

    TacoMac Well-Known Member

    In the end, it can all be summed up quite easily:

    LED is the future. They've made leaps and bounds over the last 4 years alone that have really, really brought the higher end LED fixtures into even par with HPS/Halide lighting.

    But HPS/Halide lighting still has its strengths.

    The argument of these two types of lighting is sort of the same argument between tube amp and solid state folks. The tube amp is the original, great sounding amplifier. Solid states are cheaper, but never had quite the warmth that tubes do.

    That too is changing. Digital amp modeling is getting better and better every year. Probably in another 10 years time you'll be able to sit a emulator solid state costing 400 dollars next to a 1300 dollar Vox AC 30 and not hear a difference.

    HPS/Halide vs LED is the same thing. The later will eventually overtake the former. It's the way of things and how we advance.
     
  10.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    The latter has already overtaken the former in every area but up front cost.
     
  11.  
    TacoMac

    TacoMac Well-Known Member

    That's the point: The cost are prohibitive, making it not worth the investment for the quality you get.

    Why buy a 250,000 dollar Ferrari when an 85,000 dollar Corvette will blow its doors off?

    Until the pricing for the same performance becomes more equitable (at least equal), it's not worth it thus rendering it not as good.
     
    mr. childs likes this.
  12.  
    hillbill

    hillbill Well-Known Member

    That cost is very competitive these days. The economy of production of COBs with the advances in efficiency and now Boards and strips and simple diy options weigh heavily on cost. The exit of HPS is accelerating in all applications, not just growing. The only pink at my house is from a couple of red/white a51 panels still used when extra room is needed.
     
  13.  
    Humple

    Humple Well-Known Member

    If you're only concerned with up-front cost, you're absolutely right. If you happen to be more concerned with ROI over a few years, well... In that case, I completely disagree with you.
     
    ttystikk likes this.
  14.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    You have done all the arguing. I have only posed facts and proof. If I state an opinion. I label as such.

    People like you with investments in profitless agendas don’t listen to reason. They just keep restating their same point.

    It’s only you and a few other “old” forum Growers arguing with me at all. I am in multiple conversations about growing all the time here. And on other forums.

    Why would I stay if the things you keep saying about me were true. I’m not trying to be an internet star like you. Pretending to be someone I am not. You got mad at me for ruining your credibility. Those are your words.

    How can that happen if you were correct? Sorry your “followers” heard the truth. Lol.

    I’m not going to suddenly stop correcting all the myth and silliness.

    When I show better results the “forum experts” who were never really that good at this get upset. Especially since I am challenging them for proof and direct answers.

    I’m just bored. I have been out of my career dealing with health issues for almost a decade now.

    What’s you’re problem?
     
  15.  
    OLD MOTHER SATIVA

    OLD MOTHER SATIVA Well-Known Member

    i would like you to try an led because this is an hps vs led thread and

    growing method environment plays a giant role<----

    you would have enough heat because you have hps there too and

    then you could actually have your own results instead of..well..not

    hydro must be cheap where you are because as i mentioned i paid for my leds in hydro

    savings in 6 months or so

    and it s a good thing because i do not sell herb
     
    ttystikk and MichiganMedGrower like this.
  16.  
    TacoMac

    TacoMac Well-Known Member

    And you would be wrong as far as personal growers are concerned.

    At this stage of the game, HPS/MH is still cheaper.

    At present, to get a quality LED (COB) that matches HPS performance cost about 3 times the amount up front. After that, your energy savings is only about 25%. So if you're a regular, small grower for personal use, it would take you about 12 years to break even.

    Again, at this stage, it's simply not worth it.
     
  17.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    Not sure what you mean by hydro must be cheap in my area?
     
  18.  
    OLD MOTHER SATIVA

    OLD MOTHER SATIVA Well-Known Member

    if hydro cost for you is what it is here...[expensive]

    besides growing more per w and better healt

    h i paid for my leds in hydro savings alone in under a year<-------------
    .....ROI<----------

    and simply could not afford to "wait for the better cheaper" etc incarnations you say you are waiting for..

    hence" hydro must be cheap in your area"
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
  19.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    Hydro = electric cost?

    I spend less than 100 per month total grow budget including electric for about a pound perpetually every month. Sometimes quite a bit more.

    My 1500-1800 watts total veg and bloom save me about $600 per winter on heating propane. And the air conditioning I run in summer I run regardless for us. The rooms share the house a/c.

    Even with replacement bulbs factored in it would take a decade to pay back for the new lights.

    I am not going to bother combining hps and led. That makes no sense. I don’t need a side by side. The argument about quality or yield is pointless. I understand the numbers.

    And led fails sometimes too. And the fear of buying an $800-$1500 lamp or 2 and better tech coming out next year which will happen is too stressful for this old school guy.

    So when I can buy a reasonably priced led lamp as effective as my hid now I likely will.

    But I am not going to diy repurposed warehouse lights when real custom spectrums will be available.

    Quantum boards have the right idea too. But the wrong colors. And not really a better spectrum than hps. And worse if I combine with cmh.

    Sorry. Although not sure why I feel like I am disappointing you.
     
  20.  
    OLD MOTHER SATIVA

    OLD MOTHER SATIVA Well-Known Member

    "Sorry. Although not sure why I feel like I am disappointing you."

    >please do not assume this..that's hilarious..j

    i pay 26Cents kwh here....i paid for my lights in hydro cost savings in less than a year

    spectrum?

    we are the ones figuring that out by growing..and it works better than hid per w..but i only have my own results...
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.

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