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Buds quality LEDs VS HPS

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by olsqueak, Nov 16, 2017.

  1.  
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Someone is ignoring me :(. Now I know I am being a bad Buba.
    You don't have to be my friend MMG. I'll like you anyway.
    When I'm being bad or stupid I just need input from a regular grower I know and I always then behave or leave. Definitely let me know if I should not @ you at times like this and I promise I won't.
    I'll leave. My bad anyway. I thought the thread was titled Quality, not ROI.
    Goodbye!
    Happy Holidays!
    Peace! Love! Dope!
     
  2.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    Typical no info response......


    Your cobs are more like when they used hps streetlights and repurposed magnetic ballasts to grow with.

    My “streetlights” have a proprietary combination of gasses developed over years of testing for a better spectrum than they had already.

    And I never argued that they work. You are the troll here.
     
    Kerovan likes this.
  3.  
    Humple

    Humple Well-Known Member

    I live in the same state, and I know a few growers, but as of yet, none that use COBs or QBs. But we all know HID is still ubiquitous. If you know for a fact that bud you've smoked was grown under COBs or QBs, that's one thing, but "grown under LED" doesn't equate to that. So do you personally know any growers using COBs or QBs? And I don't mean on the internet.

    I don't want you to buy LED. I really don't care what light anyone uses, as long as they're content. I'm simply addressing what sounds to me like confirmation bias. Saying that you haven't seen decent results at less than 50w per square foot just doesn't compute. And no, you weren't complaining about the quality, but you did say that your HPS is equal or better, and I wanted to know why one would say that if they haven't had a fair share of COB or QB-grown bud. Maybe you have, I don't know. But it certainly didn't seem like it based on other posts you've made.
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
  4.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    I didn’t mean that the way I think you just took it.

    I like to talk with everyone that has something to say.

    I just meant that we are all forum friends and I don’t get personally involved online the way you are saying things.

    I don’t know anyone here but a few people personally.

    I view this as an information exchange site.
     
    OLD MOTHER SATIVA and Buba Blend like this.
  5.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    No. You're using streetlights to grow with.

    Even cities are upgrading THEIR streetlights to LED.

    There's plenty of spectrum graphs available that show how well modern LED provides PAR to plants at far higher lumens per watt values.

    The only advantage HID has left is initial cost of acquisition. That's why you don't see a lot of people selling their LED lights...
     
  6.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    This part of the discussion has many variables like genetics and grower talent and even how well the grows go. And we all like different highs too.

    However I have tried cob grown home and dispensary grown and my old caregivers partner switched to fluence (?) high line led lighting last year.

    The results are as variable as they are grown under any other lighting.

    The dispensaries requested my weed and back when it was tested and I donated overage I showed higher canabanoid content on average than them with the new cobs with the same gear I use today.

    The dispensary weed was not really on our level though. Cash cropped weed rarely is.

    The fluence grown bud was an improvement over the growers 1000 watt hps bud. It smelled and tasted much better than his previous stuff.

    But it was not significantly better than mine or even noticeably different.

    Even he says the 1000’s were too much for his room. He had trouble with heat.

    I prefer spread out 600’s. And for the same reason multiple cobs are likely effective. More points of light. Easier to control heat.

    From my experience here and in person I feel it is better to wait for new tech.

    But again. I am happy with my results. And I am well within budget.
     
    mr. childs and Chunky Stool like this.
  7.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    Yes. They are using the same kind of lights you are calling Grow lights.

    And as usual you missed the point about par not metering specific wavelengths.

    If you did you would see that hps has more usable light. Just at slightly more wattage.

    I linked a chart from the u of Utah above that shows this info.

    You have ignored university proof I show with your ignorant comments since my first post on your vertical thread almost 2 years ago.

    And you got angry and upset and called names then too. Because you don’t really know what you are talking about and are pretending to be an expert.

    I was actually trying to learn. And have learned much from study since.
     
  8.  
    Chunky Stool

    Chunky Stool Well-Known Member

    I agree about spreading out smaller lights. When I'm in "full bloom", I run 2 600w HPS + 2 400w MH (2,000w total). This combo works WAY better than a couple of 1,000w.
     
    mr. childs and MichiganMedGrower like this.
  9.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    I bet that works and looks great!

    I miss my cmh in with the hps 600’s. I’m convinced the 2 600’s and 1 315 cmh would be the perfect light over a 4x8 area.

    And I miss the more natural light to see the plants as they really look.

    But I may run a few plants full cycle under the Phillips 3100k 315 in a 3x3 tent so I don’t have to start rebuilding yet.

    Pretty sure I can get a pound of sticky buds in 3 months.
     
  10.  
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    No worries, I took it the way you meant it. ;)
    But I don't like that I @ you and you are possibly getting into an argument that would not have happened had I not @ you.
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
  11.  
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    That would be like me calling a friend to a fight and let him do the fighting while I smoke one. :(
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
  12.  
    Chunky Stool

    Chunky Stool Well-Known Member

    Pulling a pound with a 315 is pretty good! I'd take that all day... 8)
     
    mr. childs and MichiganMedGrower like this.
  13.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    I only do what I want to. ;-)
     
    Buba Blend likes this.
  14.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    I don’t take sides online that way. Just let the trolls troll and have fun with it or show proof to shut them up.

    You can’t take forums too personal. I learned the hard way already. It can become overwhelming.
     
    Buba Blend likes this.
  15.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    The 315 worked great just doesn’t cover much area. I have pulled 14 oz from 3 plants already. But I was told it could match my 600. Best under that is 24 oz so far. I can fit 4 bushes instead of only 3 and they grow dense bud lower down with the hps.
     
  16.  
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    I have been learning that. I don't need to get worked up before the holidays so I will try to ignore trolls for a while in the other sections and enjoy watching my crystal develop. :peace:
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
  17.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    @Chunky Stool i posted this flower in club 315 but I want you to see. This is a black Widow x Blue Lemon Thai. I have experience with these seeds and the 5 phenos I have seen.

    The bud in my avatar is one from a few years ago.

    I thought the cmh grew frostier buds but now I am not as sure. I don’t have my cmh pic in my phone anymore but have posted it here before.

    The lighting is obviously not the most influential factor.

    1FD42A15-FB27-4C50-9905-BDF46BD34348.png
     
  18.  
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    @MichiganMedGrower One last thing. This statement above came out wrong. Online chat makes it hard to communicate. This is the 1st and only forum I have ever participated in. No interest in others.
    Anyway, I in no way meant I was calling you to help me in a fight. I would not do that.
    I only wanted to ask you if I was being out of line. Since my immune therapy a few years ago I occasionally would get weird :) and I sometimes will ask others for an opinion like, is my behavior out of line. I have been improving and it rarely happens any more except on RIU I guess :).
    Maybe I was wrong about some people being trolls.
    Ever seen those types of movies where the person thinks everyone they see is the same person, I think I was blinded seeing nothing but trolls attacking me. Oh well.
    Happy Growing!
     
  19.  
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Awesome crystal.
    I have had the same avatar for a long time. I'm changing my avatar to this until the New Year to remind me to just mellow out. :peace:
    IMG_1471 - Copy.JPG
     
    mr. childs and MichiganMedGrower like this.
  20.  
    GrowLightResearch

    GrowLightResearch Active Member

    The following is opinion and not fact. It is based on how my own interpretation of plant physiology. I have not had any formal training, just read some textbooks. Mistakes are likely.

    It's not so much LED vs. HPS. A photon is a photon no matter its source. They all travel at the speed of light so it's not that HPS has more powerful photons or something like that.

    The difference between one photon and another, as far as we know, is the wavelengths.

    I believe it has more to do with polymorphism of the plant and how spectrum affects the specific specie. Each species has it own phenotype. As plants evolve the DNA of the cells morph in order to adapt to their environment. With plants, spectrum play a big role in their development environment. Example: how blue, yellow, and far red phytochromes effect elongation i.e. shade avoidance syndrome (SAS).

    A good example is a tiger's stripes or jaguars spots are genetic traits. The color and shape are environmental. See a light and a dark-morphed jaguar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphology_(biology) here in the right sidebar.

    Most of the discussions I see on this site regarding spectrum revolve around photosynthesis. It's not about photosynthesis, any spectrum works for photosynthesis. The difference is in how the electrons created during photosynthesis are used. It's about the electron transport chain. Maybe. This is where the environmental decisions are made. It has been found that spectrum has a major influence on polymorphism.

    Also consider that a cannabis species grown under HPS has genetically evolved to adapt to HPS and may not do as well under a different spectrum. The DNA morphs will be transferred to the seeds.

    Until the legalities regarding cannabis research get ironed out, it may be awhile before we find out. The good news is I was talking to a researcher at a college in Canada (U of Guelph) and he applied for a grant to do some of this research with cannabis.

    There is a study done on Sweet Basil. I see some similarities between basil and cannabis, mainly the aroma and oils. This study shows unequivocally how much spectrum affects a plant's development. From this study I am extrapolating if the light recipe can drastically affect the terpenoids and phenylpropanoids for basil, it can do the same for cannabinoids. If you look at teh basil study, just think of cannabinoids in place of terpenoids and phenylpropanoids.

    There is a "heatmap" showing how the various light treatment affected the productions of the volatiles terpenoids, phenylpropanoids, fatty acids fatty esters, and etc.

    Notice how the column for Blue Red is almost inverted compared to BRGreen. That may explain some of the differences between growing under BR or White. The arguments over white vs. BR the focus often turns to green being the difference. The research I've seen so far on green does not really support that hypothesis either way. I think it is the Yellow spectrum. The basil study supports the yellow hypothesis. It appears to be a very influential color in both the appearance of the leaves and a huge affect on the volatiles.


    And while off topic, I may as well add that light also affects the quality of plants (e.g. fruit and vegetables) post harvest. So you may want to store your harvest under various colors. My hypothesis is you can change the flavor just as it has been proven post harvest light treatments can change the flavor of fruits.

    The "heatmap" the color treatments are at the bottom of each column. GH is greenhouse.

    colorRecipeBasilVolatiles.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    mr. childs likes this.

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