Bud Density... Help?

rdo420 said:

tjsap24, ya get a like from me man with that avatar, nice. No disrespect if that's your girl. OP, light, heat, strain, nutes, PH, & when you chop all play into how dense.

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If that was my girl you wouldn't see her ass, only the back of my head. My face would be parked in there like a bike in a bike rack.

ProfessorPotSnob said:

Hmmmmmm lets put this picture into the light , no pun intended .. Nobody has pointed out that the lights being used are combined , therefore creating more heat than needed and hence the stringy buds .. Just a simple 175 Halide alone in a 3x3 would create enough heat to put one in the red zone .. Time for the Op or there quoted imaginary friend to stop playing with Home Depot type lights

Reputable Breeders and strains ? Might want to reconsider this as well

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From my understanding of what the op posted, he said his buds/colas were fine until they were dried, he is basically saying his big
colas shrunk lol this is a genetic thing
although without pictures we cant be totally sure what the issue is

i agree with what you are saying about heat, too much heat near the colas with some more sensitive strains can cause them to start growing leafy
almost like they are re-vegging stretching with more steam growth
other strains can take a fair amount of heat with no issues

not sure what the correct terms are, but there are different types of density so to speak

some plants can make larger floral clusters, or colas, but the buds that make up these colas are spongy because the calyx themselves are not hard, or
do not pack themselves in so tightly this is typical with skunk dominated strains, although some skunk hybrids can make some nice hard buds they still do
not compare to afghan / kush
1 oz of a typical skunk strain can look almost 2x the size of a good dense kush or haze strain

other strains such as haze strains can make very large calyx that are hard but they do not always form into large floral clusters or colas

again other strains can make tiny little calyx but they pack them in so tightly close together that they form very dense buds
i found NL to be like this

so i think the clue to density is to look beyond the colas, to the individual flower structure of a single bud and how it packs in the calyx that it consists of

this plant below is a good example she was pretty big yielded just over 10 oz it made many colas as wide as a 2L soda bottle
although it yielded well, once the bud dried it was what i would call spongy, its pretty much a commercial quality skunk heavy cross







peace

HeartlandHank said:

I agree. Genetics.

I hear people say High N diets make for less dense buds and High PK diets make for more dense buds.... I'm still doing some testing in my grow to see if I agree or not... But, I can say with much confidence that High N diets make for better yields and more big buds.

I've been flowering with a higher N balance than many people on RIU veg with... I am loving the results... I have been using the same dry cabinet for years and I have to get something bigger as I can no longer fit the whole crop in there. That's one of those good problems.

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i know some folk think a plant should have yellow leaves at the end thinking any nitrogen left in the plant can spoil buds as they finish
these folk starve their plants towards the end of N and gain plenty of pretty colours as a result and lots of dead leaves
others think a healthy plant should remain green to the very end and keep as many of its leave as possible
i think its just down to personal preference whatever makes you happy
personally my plants stay green to the end i do not start the flower food until around 3 weeks of 12/12
i also do not change reservoir i keep them in the veg solution but i allow the veg food to drop low to around .8 to 1 EC then continue to top up with flowering food when needed for the remaining 6 weeks or so bringing it upto EC 2.0 -2.2 during the height of flower
i know most folk do not do this, they change reservoir every 1-2 weeks for fear of unbalanced NPK ratios, i must admit i did this myself for the first 2 years or so of growing changing the food every 2 weeks as per the instructions on the bottle, i decided to try it without any res changes it worked just the same, i also found constant PH adjustments unnecessary, i do not take any ph measurements anymore
i think it is basic common sense that the biggest change anyone can obtain is by changing strain/pheno, so this is what i concentrate on, i do not change or tweak anything now as far as food or growing method i just like to keep changing strains to keep me interested

peace

newbie9 said:

Yeah its defiiantley heat if your riding the 80 degree mark your whole grow then i there has to be hot pockets of more than that. A 175 MH in a less then 3/3 area is almost to much but add another HPS and you find your problem. Keep the temps in the 70s for best results. You want a lower temperature when flowering the heat will make the buds fluff out. Try trading both your lights for atleast a 400w HPS for flowering. Also what temperature is your light. Should be about 2700k for flowering.

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The 80 degree mark is right about where everything stays... I forgot to specify, there is a 2'x1.5' veg area with the 175mh. the almost 3'x3' flower area has the 250hps... The two areas are separate, but in the same room... So maybe its the temps? They never go above 83ish, but they are usually around 80.

newbie9 said:

Try growing Indica Dom plants like some kushes or widows. Youll get the best results for density with indicas.

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kush and indica are a good plan , although widow is a sativa hybrid

peace

Maybe try a finisher like avalanche. I have it but have yet to use it so I can't speak of its effectiveness.

Skunkd0c... I like your skunk plant there. I've got a commercial skunk cross that looks nearly identical.

It's been a while since I have done recirculating hydro, but if i do again, I will definitely be trying out a no change res. Changing the res was one of my biggest beefs with my flood and drain shale bed.

tjsap24 said:

I started with a 150hps in a very small space and it worked great, at least for personal smoke, but yes, very wispy buds. Then went to a 250hps and the buds where significantly denser, but heat became an issue in the summer months. So now I moved up to a 600hps in a small but bigger closet and as the man at the hydro store said "thats when the magic happens" Very happy with the results. I skipped over the 400hps so I can't really give advice on that but tell your "friend" that heat could be an issue if he goes larger. Myself, i'm starting to think about a 1000hps. I love my girls and only want the best for them. This is a very addicting hobby.

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i rock thousands for flower always now. started with a 150hps then a 600hps then a 1000hps. sticking with the 1000. even with shitty genetics a 1000 watt bulb will give u dense bud. plus i never have to move my hood do to the light penetration from the big boy bulb.

so basically, everyone here thinks the answer is "more light"... maybe a 400 watt HPS?

Keep temps down and I will let you in on a little secret people use to get hard buds.... Gravity. I've seen buds so dense you could shoot them with a slingshot. Imo. I'm sure lost will say not to use it but the shit works, it will get you the dense buds your looking for.

kgp said:

Keep temps down and I will let you in on a little secret people use to get hard buds.... Gravity. I've seen buds so dense you could shoot them with a slingshot. Imo. I'm sure lost will say not to use it but the shit works, it will get you the dense buds your looking for.

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gravity was discontinued wasnt it? along with bush doctor and a few others right?

Light mainly, as well as strain.

It's not the light alone. I'm running a 400w with 2 strains. The 1 plant has rock fucking solid nuggetry. The other is squishy. My 2 cents.

PersonalJesus said:

Lights: 175 MH veg, 250 HPS flower... perfect for the available space, not even 3'x3'

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I'm using 1600w of HPS and 4 x T8's in only a 4x4 area. You can get a shit ton more light in a 3x3 if you wanted to.

I agree more light will do the trick.. I dont like thos nutes either bottom shelf nutes. Also make sure plenty of air circulating in area. Can add things like Fox Farm Cha ching or Humboldt County Gravity.

Gravity I do not believe was discontinued. I hope not I love it and use it every grow bought some last week a matter of fact.

Not me,..My advice is to stop watering the F`n thing !! Remove any damaged or yellowing leaves as soon as you find them. DO NOT PULL THE LEAVES OFF, it will peel the stem. Cut them close to the stem or branch with scissors or a garden tool.

You want bark and dark !! I see too many examples here of green stems and stretched out cola`s from waaaaay too much watering. Let them go weeks without water in their early stages, it`s a dry Climate ground clutter plant that stops dirt from blowing away !!