eyderbuddy
Well-Known Member
Also, of course you can run your LED strips on cheapo drivers, it'll just be less reliable. Most people go for HLG's out of reliability and performance, to protect their "premium" LED investment.
Bridgelux EB Series Build
- Thread starter brahbbyB
- Start date
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Hi Rocho! I'll try to anwer your questions.
1. Which strip one prefer depends on upfront costs and how much you are willing to pay for better effiency. I'm using 20 2ft. F-series strips in 3000°k/CRI80(1440 diodes) and 8 Bridgelux V18c/3000°k/CRI80 to create a ~400w lamp for 1m².
But to be honest, I got a pretty good deal for strips+COB's from Arrow.com(together only 250$).
2. If you use two or more drivers in makes sense to use ⅓-½ coolwhite for vegging and add the warmwhite when you start flowering. Personally I prefer straight 3000°k as all-in-one spectrum but a mix of CRI80 and 90 for my next build. It is hard to find "good" CRI90 strips and I need to use CRI90 COB's for now, at least untill I find some hardstrips with good diodes(LM561b+ seems available but I do not want to hire an Alibaba dealer).
3. You need at least a 20 or 24 v CV driver or you need to use additional CC step up or down modules which make the whole inefficient against a Meanwell CC driver. I would recommend CV drivers only for safety reasons, if you know what you do I would prefer CC over CV drivers. And these "cheapo's" mentioned above have no 7 years warranty and you need probably 5 of these compared to the lifetime one Meanwell driver have. If you get 89% effiency out of these drivers you are lucky and if you take an additional CC module we talk already about only 85% effiency. Thats a 10% loss against a 95% efficient Meanwell driver.
It has a reason why everybody in the LED scene swear about Mean Well.
Wow! Great answer, really helpful.
I have change my mind and decide to make only a veg/mother panel and then use my 250w cob citi 1212 3500k 90cri for flow.
So a small panel, with just ish 70- 80W max ..In that case the extra cost of samsung would be not so great, but i'll see... is it valid the same rule about not necessity to adopt a heatsink with samsung strips if drive at low ampere/voltage as for bridgelux?
just for veg and not all in one would you(and othere user above in this 3d) recommend me still a spectrum mix or something like 5000k 80cri?
According with this link
https://www.rollitup.org/t/cob-suggestions-for-a-small-veg-propagation-tent.924186/#post-13076010
It should be not so different but i want to be sire ro make the riight choice!
Are you agree?
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
For a veg only rig I would recommend a HLG-80H-C700B and 5 2ft. F-Strips in series, 3x 5000°k + 2x 3000°k.
Would be ~112,5v x 0,7A=~79w net./: 0,915% driver eff.= 86w total.
Each diode get's 77,78mA which means +180lm/w from 3000°k strips and +195lm/w from 5000°k strips, Ø186,5lm/w, ~58% effiency, 45,8PAR/w, 222μMol/s PPF
How big is your veg area?
Would be ~112,5v x 0,7A=~79w net./: 0,915% driver eff.= 86w total.
Each diode get's 77,78mA which means +180lm/w from 3000°k strips and +195lm/w from 5000°k strips, Ø186,5lm/w, ~58% effiency, 45,8PAR/w, 222μMol/s PPF
How big is your veg area?
frigginwizard
Well-Known Member
I only have type A drivers(6 of them), every single one of them goes over 10% above the rated current using the onboard pot. They come at their rated current, and you can turn them up further. Pop that little rubber cover off your A driver and turn it up, it will go much higher than rated.
I dont have any type B drivers, thats just what I read about them.
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Hi again.
actually veg area is still a DIY project but i think something really tiny like a 65x50x25 cm( 25.6x 19.7x9.8 inches) just to keep a couple of "elite" clones.
Maybe just ish 28W would be enought,I do not remembar driver efficiency at ish 33% , if good enought could be a nice to have some extra power available for the future...
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Randomblame
Well-Known Member
That's 0,325m² or ~3,5sft. Up to 50-70w should be enough for a veg only chamber.
A HLG-60H-C700B has 100vdc/70w and the HLG-60H-C350B is 200vdc.
But maybe you want to flower out a little mother plant sometime in this case a bigger driver can not hurt
HLG-80H-C350B has 257vdc and the 700mA version has 128vdc.
Correct! Driver efficiency goes down the more you dim. Up to 70% only a few percent but if you dimm further it sinks much more.
A HLG-60H-C700B has 100vdc/70w and the HLG-60H-C350B is 200vdc.
But maybe you want to flower out a little mother plant sometime in this case a bigger driver can not hurt
HLG-80H-C350B has 257vdc and the 700mA version has 128vdc.
Correct! Driver efficiency goes down the more you dim. Up to 70% only a few percent but if you dimm further it sinks much more.
Chip Green
Well-Known Member
So, I built a custom cabinet.... 2.5'x2.5'x5' for 6.25 ft2..... Managing conditions has proven to be a major challenge through the winter months, determined that enclosures might be more suitable for maintaining stable temps/humidity...
I have a dedicated 240v outlet, for using MW ELG 240 C700, which will run 15x 560mm EB Gen1.
I had previously had those 15 Gen1ers, spread over a 40" rack....
For experimental purposes, I got a little carried away, and condensed the 15 strips into a 28" rack, to fit inside my new cabinet, which is lined with heavy duty mylar....
The "lamp" is hanging 10" from the top of the box, and I'm getting 20k LUX at the floor....
Its near 70,000 at 10" from the strips....
Finally going to have to use the dimmer....
I have a dedicated 240v outlet, for using MW ELG 240 C700, which will run 15x 560mm EB Gen1.
I had previously had those 15 Gen1ers, spread over a 40" rack....
For experimental purposes, I got a little carried away, and condensed the 15 strips into a 28" rack, to fit inside my new cabinet, which is lined with heavy duty mylar....
The "lamp" is hanging 10" from the top of the box, and I'm getting 20k LUX at the floor....
Its near 70,000 at 10" from the strips....
Finally going to have to use the dimmer....
Hi guys,
I made my own light using 5x https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXEB-L0280Z-35E1000-C-A3/976-1493-ND/6236279
I thought that temps would not be an issue as I misread and thought that without any changes the strips would run at 700ma. My plan was to run the strips at 50% capacity and what I thought to be 350ma and thought this would help keep the temps down.
When I received the strips and finally realized my mistake it turns out that the strips run at 350ma out the box so to reduce temps by only running them at 50% would actually give me much less light that i originally planned for..
I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions as to what I could do? I honestly do not mind buying more strips and if needs be a new driver.. Would buying stronger strips and running them low be thebest option to keep temps down?
My space is only 1sqft ish so am limited to the number of strips I can use and they have to be the 280mm ones
Thanks in advance!
I made my own light using 5x https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXEB-L0280Z-35E1000-C-A3/976-1493-ND/6236279
I thought that temps would not be an issue as I misread and thought that without any changes the strips would run at 700ma. My plan was to run the strips at 50% capacity and what I thought to be 350ma and thought this would help keep the temps down.
When I received the strips and finally realized my mistake it turns out that the strips run at 350ma out the box so to reduce temps by only running them at 50% would actually give me much less light that i originally planned for..
I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions as to what I could do? I honestly do not mind buying more strips and if needs be a new driver.. Would buying stronger strips and running them low be thebest option to keep temps down?
My space is only 1sqft ish so am limited to the number of strips I can use and they have to be the 280mm ones
Thanks in advance!
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
How much power did you need/want?
From five 1ft. EB-series strips you could build a 80w lamp with a HLG-80H-C700B. The only thing you need are a few aluminum c-channels and some screws to mount the strips to the channels for extra cooling, because the strips would run with 700mA. Okay, it's less efficient(maybe 150lm/w) but 350mA it would be only 40w and I think that's too little!
I again...could you reasn that?
I remembar about COB wire in parallel that was a throuble because of Imax if one cob fails so i wire mine in series (
HLG-185H-C1400B)
In the case stripes other people here told me that i can wire in both options or a mix bitween series and paralell and as you told me CV would be safier thanks to 12V so why would you prefer CC over CV drivers?
hoping my english is comprensible enough!
regards!
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
You can of course wire in series or in parallel, it's your choice. My answer were about the 12v driver, which is not compatible with the 19,5v one strip need. You would need a "step up modul" which converts 12v to 19,5v, and this is inefficient.
Also cheap e3ay 24v drivers are not compatible because they have no CC mode and no voltage regulator. You would need a step-down module to convert 24v to 19,5v. These drivers are made to run 12v or 24v LED flex-strips(e3ay is full with this 80-100lm/w strips). But these strips use lots of resistors to limit the voltage for 3 or 6 diodes per segment, which is again inefficient, so forget them.
The safest way to run EBgen.2 strips is a Meanwell HLG-xxxH-20A(for parallel wiring) but the "official recommend" way is a series connection eg. with a HLG-xxxH-C700(A or B). The first one(20v) has voltage and current regulators and if you look at the datasheet you'll see it can work between 17 and 23v, which suits perfect with the min/max. values of an EBgen2 strip.
Your questions show me that you don't have much idea about electrical engineering and therefore I would strongly recommend you to use a CV/CC driver like an HLG-xxxH-20A. For wiring example visit LEDgardeners website, he has a good few example for series and parallel wiring with strips.
http://ledgardener.com/
http://ledgardener.com/tag/parallel/
Sorry again, you' re a really kind and patient person and i do not want to impose on that.
I was convinced that these bridgelux strips were 12V each, this is the reason of my question that made confusion.
I'm not an electronics expert, absolutely agree but as I told you I already built my lamp with 5pcs of citi1212with 12V CPU fans heatsink and potentiometer on HLG-240H-C1400B and it works really well without problems...was not easy for me to understand electronics rule but after some studies i got it.
I learned as at different amperage COBs need more or less volts than nominal datasheet, the same with temperature...so with citizen calculator i make the project and putting a potentiometer with switch i exploited the driver "open circuit" gain a few extra volts i needed (a little bit more than mominal max 179V output)
I'm tellig you that just because you know i can manage an elementary cablage if i understand the elementary theory at the base of it.
I cheked by a "killAwatt" and lamp gave me 250W and i make a full grow cycle without light issues.
As I told you I just like to understand why do you recommend to wire in series(constant current mode) instead of in parallel(costant voltage)..
Parallel would be safer thanx to work at ish 20V of 5 stripes direct current instead of 100V of direct current for 5 stripes wire in series... isn't it?
As i wrote before i know that with cobs the problem of a paralell wiring was concerned with Imax if one cob fail but whit those stripes you told me parallel wire (or mix of both)could be done without pain.
I never see a CV driver in my life, and watching pictures I can not understand why does it have(in the A version) two pots on the driver surface instead of just one to adjust Ampere...maybe because it has both tension and current adjustable(that's is why you say CC/CV driver by any chance?)
It's difficult for me understand toutorial also because of my rubbish european english so I really hope you and the other users could still be patient and help me to make this little project.
Thank you very much for your attenction!
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
You understand it quite good.
The reason is called "thermal runaways". It's really easy to understand.
At first, these strips are like COB's designed to work with constant current. So the priciples are the same for COB's and strips.
A CC driver gives out a constant current but it's voltage is variable in a certain range(50-100%).
A CV/CC driver gives out constant voltage(allways 100% ±3%) and is "trying" to apply as much current thru the circuit as possible, again in a certain range(driver max.+poti setting).
To drive COB's or strips with a CV/CC driver the circuit needs more planning because it must fit in the small voltage range these drivers gives out(most MW CV driver is ±3v) "and" in case one strip(or COB) fail the rest must be capable to work with the additional current.
BUT!
Most LED's have a slightly different voltage(and resistance) and if you drive them in parallel you get an uneven current flow. Most of the time it's only a few watts, which means it's not visible to the naked eye, but it's of course measurable. In a worst case scenario when the strips run at their limits and gets really hot the differences adds up and the strip with the lowest resistance goes into thermal runways and fails because of too much current flow.
As we know, the rest of the strips must can take the additional current and if there are still differences the next strip gets hotter and burn out and so on.
God thanks, these strips have a pretty good(small) voltage range, I've tested a few F-Series strips and they all fall within a ±0,2v range.(pulsed@ambient temps)
The strips are also much easier to work with because they have a much lower thermal resistance and need much less cooling effort. This makes them even more resistant against thermal runaways.
With CC drivers and a series circuit the current for each individual LED is the same and each LED takes the voltage they need, one a bit more the other a bit less, but all run stable with the same current.
No thermal runaways possible in a CC circuit.
This is the reason every professional engeneer will recommend you to use CC with LED's except they are specially made for CV operation (additional resistors, eg. like 12/24v flex-Strips).
Thank you ery much, really exhaustive answer..now ve cleared(a bit)my mind.
I'll definitely go for CC driver.
I can't understand why you (and MW as well) say that possible voltage range is 50%-100% when for the example in my HLG-240H-C1400B i can dimm it from 10% to 100%(with a really poor efficiency until ish 60% but i can)...maybe is it referred just to the A version?
Would you recommend me a little alu bar as heatsink, even if drive give not more than 300mA or would be completely useless?
What could the more efficient samsung stripe alternative from digikey other user spoke some posts ago, if any?...apart cost which are pros and cons in confront of bridgelux?
Regards!!
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Kenny Grows
Active Member
Quick question, Shouldn't an HVG-150-20A be able to power 16 of the 1' Gen2's. I've been trying to wire my lights for 3 hours now and they wont turn on, but i can power them with my HLG-120H-25A
eyderbuddy
Well-Known Member
The HVG series seem to be 220 V driver, or at least 180 Volts minimum from the wall as per the spec sheets. Maybe that's your problem?
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Have a look at the datasheet. The constant current region or voltage range for an HLG-240H-C1400(A or B dosen't matter) is 89-179v(50-100%). The dimming is regulated by current regulation, the circuit voltage varies only by a few volts between min. and max. current.
Although the Q series is available, I still recommend the F series. If both run with the same current/driver, the F-Strips are a few lumens/w brighter. So still the most bang for a buck from F-Series strips.
I'm currently building a F-strip(20) based light with additional CRI90 COB's(8 ) and an UVB-tube(39w). But I'm still waiting for the drivers which are announced to come in week 8/2018
Lot's of diodes and the strips will work below LM561c test current(60mA/525-570mA per strip), so ~187lm/w.
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Kenny Grows
Active Member
You sure, i'm still new at this. But the HVG-150-20A is a 20V driver, If not please explain how you got 220V? Really trying to see if my driver is broken or maybe i wired the lights wrong
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Have a look at the datasheet. He means input voltage(AC). The HVG series needs 180-305v input voltage and did not work with 120vac(US), you need 240v to make it work. There are a few cheap solutions available for US citizens, I would ask a local electrician. I've seen some users here who switched their power outlets to 240v for better driver efficiency.
It is not that expensive ..
