Bottom leaves yellowing W/ PICS

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
ok so the plant i haven't posted yet is drooping a bit... and i haven't watered it in 3 days... is it safe to water now? and it feels very dry
Yea for sure. The overwater an underwater droop look almost identical.
I'd love to SCROG, but the veg time just detours me away. Cost 50% more on power to veg than flower. If plant limits were an issue, I'd be all over it.
I posted a pic somewhere here(sorry not much help I know) of a good mix between SOG and SCROG.
 

DrRonPaul2012

Well-Known Member
Yea for sure. The overwater an underwater droop look almost identical.
I'd love to SCROG, but the veg time just detours me away. Cost 50% more on power to veg than flower. If plant limits were an issue, I'd be all over it.
I posted a pic somewhere here(sorry not much help I know) of a good mix between SOG and SCROG.
really how long do you veg for? i think my veg time was only 4 weeks with the last grow
 

Terry385

Well-Known Member
"I don't call that plant under watered, I call that dead."

this one live after transplanted from dwc to soil phone pics 046.jpg WP_000010.jpg sour diesel one strong plant
was good smoke
 

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
i've seen plants easily come back from much worse.
To be honest, I've never seen a plant droop as bad as then one in that picture. Technically you are correct. The onset of underwatering looks very similar.

I don't doubt a plant can come back from that, but it wouldn't have the chance to in my garden. Anything below my standards of perfect is killed. I will usually veg 50% more plants than I need, so that the stragglers can be killed.
 

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
really how long do you veg for? i think my veg time was only 4 weeks with the last grow
In SOG 16 plants per 3x3 is vegged for a week. The mix is also a 3x3 with 9 plants vegged for 2 weeks. Then trained in flower to only fill out net. They will only grow vertical 2 to 3 inches in flower. (Extensive tying down and super cropping)
 

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
X 1 MILLION.....
I'm just not sure how y'all are getting to this conclusion.
1. Ocean forest isn't organic, ask a fox farm sales rep.
2. Ocean forest ph alone is not ideal, I have checked multiple bags, have seen a ph as low as 4.5, and it never got above 5.6.
I'll disagree with this till the day I die. Ph is important in all aspects of growing.

To the op, personally, I'd ph my water to 6 to 6.5, and know it won't damage anything. The choice is yours.

Use an organic ph up or down, if you do decide to ph your water. Your standard ph up and down will kill microbes, not to mention add some nutrients you won't need. Earth juice and nector of the gods are two brands that come to mind for organic choices.

Perfection/optimal is different from acceptable.
 
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Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
Yea for sure. The overwater an underwater droop look almost identical.
I'd love to SCROG, but the veg time just detours me away. Cost 50% more on power to veg than flower. If plant limits were an issue, I'd be all over it.
I posted a pic somewhere here(sorry not much help I know) of a good mix between SOG and SCROG.
Those pictures are in my thread called HSO blue dream if u wanted to check them out.
 

workinit

Well-Known Member
I'm just not sure how y'all are getting to this conclusion.
1. Ocean forest isn't organic, ask a fox farm sales rep.
2. Ocean forest ph alone is not ideal, I have checked multiple bags, have seen a ph as low as 4.5, and it never got above 5.6.
I'll disagree with this till the day I die. Ph is important in all aspects of growing.

To the op, personally, I'd ph my water to 6 to 6.5, and know it won't damage anything. The choice is yours.

Use an organic ph up or down, if you do decide to ph your water. Your standard ph up and down will kill microbes, not to mention add some nutrients you won't need. Earth juice and nector of the gods are two brands that come to mind for organic choices.

Perfection/optimal is different from acceptable.
You have been brainwashed by all the idiots who don't know what they are talking about. These plants have never had a solution or water PH adjusted. ALKALINITY of your water is what's important.

What were you saying about PH?

DSC_0009.JPG


DSC_0003.JPG
 

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
You have been brainwashed by all the idiots who don't know what they are talking about. These plants have never had a solution or water PH adjusted. ALKALINITY of your water is what's important.

What were you saying about PH?

View attachment 3312484


View attachment 3312482
That's funny, because all the information I acquired myself. (Testing the ph).
Your pictures prove nothing. Your waters ph could be in the acceptable range. Also, as I have posted multiple times now, perfection is different from acceptable. Just because your plant is healthy, does not mean it's to it's full potential.
 

workinit

Well-Known Member
Lol, do the research. It's science. Your medium controls the the PH not the solution/water. Your alkalinity can change your mediums PH over time. My water's PH is 7.2. I use half tap and half RO which puts my alkalinity at abut 35 ppm. Science says that so long as your medium is PH buffered you DO NOT NEED to PH your water or solution. I bet your using good ol' phosphoric acid to lower your PH aren't you. Did you know that your adding a shit ton of P to your water/solution. Botanicare list the NPK of their PH down as 0 15 0. So instead of feeding at whatever your nutrient NPK is your feeding at that level plus all that P, see where this goes. I'm not pulling this out of my ass, here is a little bit of science behind what I believe.

Water Quality: pH and Alkalinity
Recently, some growers have expressed concern about the "high pH" of their irrigation water and its potential adverse effects on plants. The purpose of this article is to allay some of these concerns by pointing out the difference between "high pH" and "high alkalinity".

Alkalinity and pH are two important factors in determining the suitability of water for irrigating plants. pH is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) in water or other liquids. In general, water for irrigation should have a pH b etween 5.0 and 7.0. Water with pH below 7.0 is termed "acidic" and water with pH above 7.0 is termed "basic"; pH 7.0 is "neutral". Sometimes the term "alkaline" is used instead of "basic" and often "alkaline" is confused with "alkalinity". Alkalinity is a measure of the water's ability to neutralize acidity.An alkalinity test measures the level of bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides in water and test results are generally expressed as "ppm of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)". The desirable range f or irrigation water is 0 to 100 ppm calcium carbonate. Levels between 30 and 60 ppm are considered optimum for most plants.

Irrigation water tests should always include both pH and alkalinity tests. A pH test by itself is not an indication of alkalinity. Water with high alkalinity (i.e., high levels of bicarbonates or carbonates) always has a pH value ÷7 or above, but water with high pH doesn't always have high alkalinity. This is important because high alkalinity exerts the most significant effects on growing medium fertility and plant nutrition.

Acidification of High Alkalinity Water
Many greenhouse operators inject acid (e.g., phosphoric, nitric, or sulfuric acid) into water with problematic high levels of alkalinity. Acidification of water having high pH but low alkalinity is rarely necessary. The use of acid injection sh ould be considered very carefully for several reasons. First, it is an extra step in production which will require additional materials and equipment. Second, acids are dangerous to handle and may damage some injectors and piping systems. Third, phosphoric or nitric acid are sources of P and NO3, so the regular fertilizer program may need to be modified to take into account the addition of these nutrients. This would depend on how much acid must be used to neutralize the alkalinity and reduce pH. Fourth, sometimes acid injection causes the solubilization of normally precipitated (unavailable) forms of trace elements resulting in levels toxic to plants.

The amount of acid required to reach the desired pH (i.e., neutralize alkalinity) is determined by laboratory titration of a water sample with the appropriate acid or by a calculation procedure. Some "fine-tuning" may be needed later when actual inject ion is started. Acid is always injected prior to the addition of fertilizer or other chemicals.

Prepared by Douglas Cox
Plant and Soil Sciences
University of Massachusetts
Amherst
August 1995.


And as so far as my plant's "are not perfect", please point out what's not "perfect" in the pic below as my eyes see perfection.
There is nothing organic about my grow 100% mineral salts in Promix HP.
DSC_0005.JPG
 
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DrRonPaul2012

Well-Known Member
You have been brainwashed by all the idiots who don't know what they are talking about. These plants have never had a solution or water PH adjusted. ALKALINITY of your water is what's important.

What were you saying about PH?

View attachment 3312484


View attachment 3312482
thats interesting... don't you worry about them getting root bound with each other? i thought that was weed growing 101? to never plant, plants in the same pot... they do look good tho
 

DrRonPaul2012

Well-Known Member
Lol, do the research. It's science. Your medium controls the the PH not the solution/water. Your alkalinity can change your mediums PH over time. My water's PH is 7.2. I use half tap and half RO which puts my alkalinity at abut 35 ppm. Science says that so long as your medium is PH buffered you DO NOT NEED to PH your water or solution. I bet your using good ol' phosphoric acid to lower your PH aren't you. Did you know that your adding a shit ton of P to your water/solution. Botanicare list the NPK of their PH down as 0 15 0. So instead of feeding at whatever your nutrient NPK is your feeding at that level plus all that P, see where this goes. I'm not pulling this out of my ass, here is a little bit of science behind what I believe.

Water Quality: pH and Alkalinity
Recently, some growers have expressed concern about the "high pH" of their irrigation water and its potential adverse effects on plants. The purpose of this article is to allay some of these concerns by pointing out the difference between "high pH" and "high alkalinity".

Alkalinity and pH are two important factors in determining the suitability of water for irrigating plants. pH is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) in water or other liquids. In general, water for irrigation should have a pH b etween 5.0 and 7.0. Water with pH below 7.0 is termed "acidic" and water with pH above 7.0 is termed "basic"; pH 7.0 is "neutral". Sometimes the term "alkaline" is used instead of "basic" and often "alkaline" is confused with "alkalinity". Alkalinity is a measure of the water's ability to neutralize acidity.An alkalinity test measures the level of bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides in water and test results are generally expressed as "ppm of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)". The desirable range f or irrigation water is 0 to 100 ppm calcium carbonate. Levels between 30 and 60 ppm are considered optimum for most plants.

Irrigation water tests should always include both pH and alkalinity tests. A pH test by itself is not an indication of alkalinity. Water with high alkalinity (i.e., high levels of bicarbonates or carbonates) always has a pH value ÷7 or above, but water with high pH doesn't always have high alkalinity. This is important because high alkalinity exerts the most significant effects on growing medium fertility and plant nutrition.

Acidification of High Alkalinity Water
Many greenhouse operators inject acid (e.g., phosphoric, nitric, or sulfuric acid) into water with problematic high levels of alkalinity. Acidification of water having high pH but low alkalinity is rarely necessary. The use of acid injection sh ould be considered very carefully for several reasons. First, it is an extra step in production which will require additional materials and equipment. Second, acids are dangerous to handle and may damage some injectors and piping systems. Third, phosphoric or nitric acid are sources of P and NO3, so the regular fertilizer program may need to be modified to take into account the addition of these nutrients. This would depend on how much acid must be used to neutralize the alkalinity and reduce pH. Fourth, sometimes acid injection causes the solubilization of normally precipitated (unavailable) forms of trace elements resulting in levels toxic to plants.

The amount of acid required to reach the desired pH (i.e., neutralize alkalinity) is determined by laboratory titration of a water sample with the appropriate acid or by a calculation procedure. Some "fine-tuning" may be needed later when actual inject ion is started. Acid is always injected prior to the addition of fertilizer or other chemicals.

Prepared by Douglas Cox
Plant and Soil Sciences
University of Massachusetts
Amherst
August 1995.


And as so far as my plant's "are not perfect", please point out what's not "perfect" in the pic below as my eyes see perfection.
There is nothing organic about my grow 100% mineral salts in Promix HP.
View attachment 3312520
ya i don't have a PPM meter... didn't need it for my dwc grow, and consider im ditching the soil once i get a mother i don't see the value in obtaining one, sure it could still be used when i cross over but seeing as i did it without one and im on a budget i probably won't but maybe.

uncle Buck said:
the plant just needs more liberty liberty freedom constitution.
as much as i know your saying that to attack my beliefs your actaully not wrong... i would have to agree im 'tyrannizing' my own baby = (...

but based on the chart you posted its seems that Calcium and Mangnesium seem to be the two nutes that are locked out if im getting a 6.3 ph... which is what i suspected... the best bet would be to raise the soil's ph, how do i do that without lime?
 
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Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
Lol, do the research. It's science. Your medium controls the the PH not the solution/water. Your alkalinity can change your mediums PH over time. My water's PH is 7.2. I use half tap and half RO which puts my alkalinity at abut 35 ppm. Science says that so long as your medium is PH buffered you DO NOT NEED to PH your water or solution. I bet your using good ol' phosphoric acid to lower your PH aren't you. Did you know that your adding a shit ton of P to your water/solution. Botanicare list the NPK of their PH down as 0 15 0. So instead of feeding at whatever your nutrient NPK is your feeding at that level plus all that P, see where this goes. I'm not pulling this out of my ass, here is a little bit of science behind what I believe.

Water Quality: pH and Alkalinity
Recently, some growers have expressed concern about the "high pH" of their irrigation water and its potential adverse effects on plants. The purpose of this article is to allay some of these concerns by pointing out the difference between "high pH" and "high alkalinity".

Alkalinity and pH are two important factors in determining the suitability of water for irrigating plants. pH is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions (H+) in water or other liquids. In general, water for irrigation should have a pH b etween 5.0 and 7.0. Water with pH below 7.0 is termed "acidic" and water with pH above 7.0 is termed "basic"; pH 7.0 is "neutral". Sometimes the term "alkaline" is used instead of "basic" and often "alkaline" is confused with "alkalinity". Alkalinity is a measure of the water's ability to neutralize acidity.An alkalinity test measures the level of bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides in water and test results are generally expressed as "ppm of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)". The desirable range f or irrigation water is 0 to 100 ppm calcium carbonate. Levels between 30 and 60 ppm are considered optimum for most plants.

Irrigation water tests should always include both pH and alkalinity tests. A pH test by itself is not an indication of alkalinity. Water with high alkalinity (i.e., high levels of bicarbonates or carbonates) always has a pH value ÷7 or above, but water with high pH doesn't always have high alkalinity. This is important because high alkalinity exerts the most significant effects on growing medium fertility and plant nutrition.

Acidification of High Alkalinity Water
Many greenhouse operators inject acid (e.g., phosphoric, nitric, or sulfuric acid) into water with problematic high levels of alkalinity. Acidification of water having high pH but low alkalinity is rarely necessary. The use of acid injection sh ould be considered very carefully for several reasons. First, it is an extra step in production which will require additional materials and equipment. Second, acids are dangerous to handle and may damage some injectors and piping systems. Third, phosphoric or nitric acid are sources of P and NO3, so the regular fertilizer program may need to be modified to take into account the addition of these nutrients. This would depend on how much acid must be used to neutralize the alkalinity and reduce pH. Fourth, sometimes acid injection causes the solubilization of normally precipitated (unavailable) forms of trace elements resulting in levels toxic to plants.

The amount of acid required to reach the desired pH (i.e., neutralize alkalinity) is determined by laboratory titration of a water sample with the appropriate acid or by a calculation procedure. Some "fine-tuning" may be needed later when actual inject ion is started. Acid is always injected prior to the addition of fertilizer or other chemicals.

Prepared by Douglas Cox
Plant and Soil Sciences
University of Massachusetts
Amherst
August 1995.


And as so far as my plant's "are not perfect", please point out what's not "perfect" in the pic below as my eyes see perfection.
There is nothing organic about my grow 100% mineral salts in Promix HP.
View attachment 3312520
Outdated information IMO. Good read though, and I will see if that is still considered true to today's scientist. You have defanitetly made your points, but I'll still ph my water. If you were to read my post, I already talked about not using any "salts" for ph adjustment with organics. I use them in hydro, yes.

As far as the plants, they are slight "yellow" or lime green. I'm looking for more of a lush green. How old are they?
 

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
ya i don't have a PPM meter... didn't need it for my dwc grow, and consider im ditching the soil once i get a mother i don't see the value in obtaining one, sure it could still be used when i cross over but seeing as i did it without one and im on a budget i probably won't but maybe.


Calcium and Mangnesium seem to be the two nutes that are locked out if im getting a 6.3 ph... which is what i suspected... the best bet would be to raise the soil's ph, how do i do that without lime?
Oyster shell or crab shell meal will raise the ph, believe it must be composts though.
 

workinit

Well-Known Member
thats interesting... don't you worry about them getting root bound with each other? i thought that was weed growing 101? to never plant, plants in the same pot... they do look good tho
It's never been a problem for me. If that were the case wouldn't if apply to Rockwool as well? Many commercial growers use multiple plants in rockwool slabs.
 
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