Blood red (leaf) stems week 3 flower. over nute?

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pacificNW

Active Member
Soil- FFOF with added pearlite, worm castings(1cup per 4 gallon pot) and bone meal (2 tbsp. per 4 gallon pot)

Nutrients- Foxfarms GrowBig, Bigbloom, Down to Earth bat guano(8-3-1), Down to Earth bone meal (3-15-0) Epsom salts (Mg) 9.8% (S) 12%

So everything was looking good until I added the Epsom salts. Through veg I had been on half strength grow big 1tbsp/gal every 2 watering's, the bone meal and worm castings were part of the soil mix, 1 week before flower I stopped with the Grow Big and flushed. Started Big bloom when they had dried out a few days at 3tbsp/gal every other watering, Switched to 12/12 and applied 2tbsp of bat guano to the top soil, buds busted open and where looking good for the end of week 1, beginning of week 2 I added 2tbsp/gal of the Epsom salts and gave em a good drink of it followed with some water. Within 3 days a lot of the leaf stems on one plant I saw were turning a weird brown on the undersides of the stems, until I flicked off the hps I couldn't tell that they were actually blood red, much more vibrant than in the pictures, leafs are a nice dark green so I don't think a N def. and I know its not lacking in P... could it be an over abundance? Any input would be helpful, and I don't think its the genetics, I had the buds the seeds came from and it was all green.
Almost forgot. under a 600w hps with 250w of cfl full spectrum. Thanks in Advance.
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bird mcbride

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
I forget exactly but it's an overload of magnesium causing a lockout of other nutrients. In hydro the build up of mag is caused by algae in a res that has been allowed to exceed 70F. Maybe someone will come along that is a little fresher on the subject.
 
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pacificNW

Active Member
That chart was exteremly helpful Hex thank you, looks like my phos is being blocked by over mag, time for a flush I guess. is this going to stunt them? its still pretty early into flower.
 
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~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
can I ask a silly question? If everything was going good, why did you add ES to the equation :confused: The only thing I could come up with was you may have been trying to prevent a lack off. Was that it? I myself try to watch & listen to all of my plants needs. At times I find myself adding an extra bit of this & that, which in most cases isn't good. In those cases the plants would show signs of to much of 1 nutrients then others. So I was jumping the gun, and playing around with them just to see what all they could handle honestly. Now I feed at a lower ppm reading, and if my plants show any signs of deficiency I then add what they are hollering for.. ;)
pacificNW said:
Soil- FFOF with added pearlite, worm castings(1cup per 4 gallon pot) and bone meal (2 tbsp. per 4 gallon pot)

Nutrients- Foxfarms GrowBig, Bigbloom, Down to Earth bat guano(8-3-1), Down to Earth bone meal (3-15-0) Epsom salts (Mg) 9.8% (S) 12%

So everything was looking good until I added the Epsom salts. Through veg I had been on half strength grow big 1tbsp/gal every 2 watering's, the bone meal and worm castings were part of the soil mix, 1 week before flower I stopped with the Grow Big and flushed. Started Big bloom when they had dried out a few days at 3tbsp/gal every other watering, Switched to 12/12 and applied 2tbsp of bat guano to the top soil, buds busted open and where looking good for the end of week 1, beginning of week 2 I added 2tbsp/gal of the Epsom salts and gave em a good drink of it followed with some water. Within 3 days a lot of the leaf stems on one plant I saw were turning a weird brown on the undersides of the stems, until I flicked off the hps I couldn't tell that they were actually blood red, much more vibrant than in the pictures, leafs are a nice dark green so I don't think a N def. and I know its not lacking in P... could it be an over abundance? Any input would be helpful, and I don't think its the genetics, I had the buds the seeds came from and it was all green.
Almost forgot. under a 600w hps with 250w of cfl full spectrum. Thanks in Advance.
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pacificNW

Active Member
~Dankster~420 said:
can I ask a silly question? If everything was going good, why did you add ES to the equation :confused: The only thing I could come up with was you may have been trying to prevent a lack off. Was that it? I myself try to watch & listen to all of my plants needs. At times I find myself adding an extra bit of this & that, which in most cases isn't good. In those cases the plants would show signs of to much of 1 nutrients then others. So I was jumping the gun, and playing around with them just to see what all they could handle honestly. Now I feed at a lower ppm reading, and if my plants show any signs of deficiency I then add what they are hollering for.. ;)
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good question, i added them after i noticed relatively low levels of mag in all of the other ferts i had, and i was worried that with all the buds forming mag might be what they run out of.. it was more precautionary than needed though, guess they were fine on mag... would you recommend flushing, or watering as regular with no fert until it straightens out? thanks a ton for the advice!
 
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pacificNW

Active Member
I guess it could be the strain, maybe a different pheno than the bud the seeds came from? in other words the bud was of a purple strain, but didnt show the purple pheno i think. About an hour ago i flushed the littlest guy with the red stems to see if it goes away, if not its the strain, if it does then it was a combo of over nute and lockout.
my last question is can this be caused by temp fluctuation? 78f lights on and anywhere from 50-60f lights off?
 
neonknight420

neonknight420

Well-Known Member
One question, why are you using Grow Big? All the the other nutes you listed are organic. You are killing your beneficials. Either go all synthetic are all organic. just a thought.
 
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pacificNW

Active Member
neonknight420 said:
One question, why are you using Grow Big? All the the other nutes you listed are organic. You are killing your beneficials. Either go all synthetic are all organic. just a thought.
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i used very little during veg, didnt quite know what i was gonna do yet, but after considering better taste and less of a flush on the naturals i think ill stick with 100% organic next time, and i hope it wont make much of a difference this time.
 
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pacificNW

Active Member
vostok said:
to my blog: https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/understanding-red-stems.28748/#comment-33699
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That was probably the most informative and well worded way i have seen to describe this, its not like these plants seem to be lacking anything really, it seemed to happen #1 after 12/12 began and #2 after i switched from cfl to hps, 6500k to 2000k which goes along with what it says about the anthocyanin's becoming more active as the days shorten and light becomes stronger. ill see if the one that i flushed shows a difference or just lacks in something now because i took nutes away when nothing was wrong lol. Thank you so much
 
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woody333333

Well-Known Member
pacificNW said:
Will do as soon as lights come on, see if it helps.. i burnt with mag not with other stuff so if i add the bloom it wont burn em more right?
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wait til theyre ready to be watered...... 2 caps full per gallon... water w a quart each...more castings.........the Epsom salt was goofy but I don't believe that's your problem..... looks like theyre just running out of gas to me..... I could be wrong..
 
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pacificNW

Active Member
ok, so far its very mixed answers so here's whats gonna happen, 1 plant has been flushed, tomorrow i will add big bloom at 2 tbsp/gal 1qt and some worm castings sparingly (they look good on N) to a sperate plant with the same issue , wait 3 days maybe 4 for an improvement in either and if nothing changes its either genetic traits or anthocyanin's becoming more active... we will see. I have 3 or 4 plants with this issue so i will try different things on different ones till i get it worked out.
i would rather it be a phos def than a mag toxicity causing phos lockout thats for sure, only time will tell. thanks everyone and ill see if i can put your advice to good use.
will update in a few days.
 
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pacificNW

Active Member
"Red petioles and stems are a normal, genetic characteristic for many varieties, plus it can also be a co-symptom of N, K, and Mg-deficiencies, so red stems are not a foolproof sign of P-deficiency. Too much P can lead to iron deficiency."

The little guy i flushed is showing slightly paler leafs than yesterday, but stems are still blood red which supports genetics as the cause as well as phos def, adding big bloom to a separate one now, if it goes away its phos def, if not, still left with phos lockout due to mag over abundance, the flushed plant should be clean on mag now so if no improvements in the stems ill add big bloom to see if that will fix it up, and if all that fails it 100% has to be genetics.
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
They look pretty darn healthy. I bet it more strain related than anything. And Grow Big or other so called synthetic nutrients do not wipe out micro herds in your medium. Forum myth.
 
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