BHO run

Jordan T

New Member
Hey guys!

I have a couple questions regarding yield return and purging. I've done it a few times with success but would like to improve and perfect it.

I used 70 grams of high quality pink kush bud (lab tested at 24%) and 5 cans of butane. I was able to get a 16% return, a bit over 11 grams. I guess I just expected more since I used higher quality bud, but maybe I'm missing something? Is that a good return?

My returns are also different, some are "shatter" and some are what I would describe as "laffy taffy". Is this due to my manufacturing process or is it the strain? Temps are always under 96F, I usually purge for 3-5 days. Does anyone know if "laffy taffy" still has residue butane? It doesn't react under the vacuum, but just want to make sure I'm not consuming butane.

Thanks in advance :)!
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Get your extact tested!!! Especially if you plan to give it to other people that trust you to make clean meds. Please have the integrity to test your product if you call yourself someones caretaker

Test For residual solvent not just potency! Use a reputable lab staffed by chemist and biologist. Not "biotechs" Invest the $50 and find out for sure rather than ask strangers in a online forum. your process is very crude mimicry of what is intended to be a very persice and "sciency" process. The equipment and tec your using and following are questionable and argumentative. You will always yeild different results. Your 15% yeild is mostly wax and little thc oil. Even when it comes out as oil. Theres still wax in there. You would get more potent higher yeilding extracts using water or even no solvent methods.faster and easier too.
Cannabis oils are meant to be oils. Not put in a drying oven and burnt to a crisp under high heat and vacuum just so it fits the description of "shatter" and maybe get the poison out
 

Jordan T

New Member
Get your extact tested!!! Especially if you plan to give it to other people that trust you to make clean meds. Please have the integrity to test your product if you call yourself someones caretaker

Test For residual solvent not just potency! Use a reputable lab staffed by chemist and biologist. Not "biotechs" Invest the $50 and find out for sure rather than ask strangers in a online forum. your process is very crude mimicry of what is intended to be a very persice and "sciency" process. The equipment and tec your using and following are questionable and argumentative. You will always yeild different results. Your 15% yeild is mostly wax and little thc oil. Even when it comes out as oil. Theres still wax in there. You would get more potent higher yeilding extracts using water or even no solvent methods.faster and easier too.
Cannabis oils are meant to be oils. Not put in a drying oven and burnt to a crisp under high heat and vacuum just so it fits the description of "shatter" and maybe get the poison out
Nope, just for me, not sharing. Yea I was planning on sending some in, but I wanted to get it down before I send my samples in.

Its not "burnt to a crisp", its vacuum purged to get the butane out, the whole point is to not burn the product while removing butane.....
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Of course
Perhaps i should say dried to a cripy "shatter"
Use something else and Keep it under room temp if you want. Or go up to 50 or 60 if you want. You will get oil every time, no wax ever, keep all the flavors and have no questions or doubts.
 

Bublonichronic

Well-Known Member
Hydrodistillation, but that more just for the aromatic essential oils...but if you hydrodistill first then do a butane extract and purge off all the solvent you can then readd the original terpenes...oh no Iv said to much
 

gwpharms

Well-Known Member
Hydrodistillation, but that more just for the aromatic essential oils...but if you hydrodistill first then do a butane extract and purge off all the solvent you can then readd the original terpenes...oh no Iv said to much
What is that supposed to be a secret? Theres about a dozen patents as old as 90 years describing that same process using diffent methods.Minus the butane of course. That would just give you tasteless wax with little bits of oil. Some delta 9 and lots of delta 8 or lower.You can extract the thc with water still, but not steam vapor.or get the oils with etoh. Or no solvent. Sound waves would do better than supercritical. Get a drum circle together and make morocan hash. Its fun. Cleaner and more potent than that shatter and wax your making.
An experienced well educated chemist can synthesize anything psychoactive or non using h2o as a starting point
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Hey guys!

I have a couple questions regarding yield return and purging. I've done it a few times with success but would like to improve and perfect it.

I used 70 grams of high quality pink kush bud (lab tested at 24%) and 5 cans of butane. I was able to get a 16% return, a bit over 11 grams. I guess I just expected more since I used higher quality bud, but maybe I'm missing something? Is that a good return?

My returns are also different, some are "shatter" and some are what I would describe as "laffy taffy". Is this due to my manufacturing process or is it the strain? Temps are always under 96F, I usually purge for 3-5 days. Does anyone know if "laffy taffy" still has residue butane? It doesn't react under the vacuum, but just want to make sure I'm not consuming butane.

Thanks in advance :)!
We typically yield 18/25%, depending on raw material, and tell how we are doing by examining the spent material afterwards with a 100X microscope for intact trichome heads. Only the stalk should be left behind.

Check E-bay for cheeep hand held and UBS microscopes.

If you had 24% potential and yielded 16%, I would say you have some opportunity for improvement.

Beyond the mention of 5 cans of butane, you made no mention of process or equipment, soooo shall I infer you are open blasting???????????????

5 Cans (size?) for 70 grams is excessive open blasting. What diameter tube????????????

How are you preparing and packing the material?

What temperature is the material column and what temperature is the butane?

What vacuum levels are you running your oven.

Pull and snap can be soft for several reasons, one of which is retained solvent. Others are high monoterpene content, partial decarboxylation, or high plant wax content.

FDA lists n- and Isobutane as GRAS, or generally regarded as safe. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title21-vol3/pdf/CFR-2012-title21-vol3-sec184-1165.pdf

FDA residual solvent standards for Class III solvents, allow <50mg/day maximum or 5000 ppm. Some locals have set the limits for dispensary products at 10% of that, or 50ppm.

They use it as a food propellant, for things like whipped cream, to put things in prospective, despite the abounding hysteria that sometimes surrounds butane residuals on forums.

If you are open blasting from cans, the question of mystery oil rears its ugly head. You didn't mention what brand you used, but here is some reference material: https://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-mystery-oil/

Mystery oil is primarily longer chain hydrocarbon molecules, with higher boiling points, so they are easy to remove before hand using fractional distillation, but difficult to remove after extraction, without degrading the concentrate.

Both Hexane and Pentane are typically present in mystery oil, which are also simple fully saturated alkanes and relatively non toxic as well, but our livers turn them into 2.5 Diones, which are carcinogenic.

ASSuming one of the cleaner brands of "reagent grade" cigar lighter butane's, mystery oil levels are typically below regulated limits, so no reason to run yelling the sky is falling, but reason to pre-distill LPG to remove it before extraction.

Another is taste. Human threshold sensory perceptions for HC's are typically in the low PPM to high PPB levels, so mystery oil does add a butyl undertone.

Soooo, my best guess auguring the bones and chicken guts from here, is that you are probably below maximums, but the way you typically tell for sure is through GC head space sampling, which I suggest you have done, to dial in your process.
 

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Bublonichronic

Well-Known Member
What is that supposed to be a secret? Theres about a dozen patents as old as 90 years describing that same process using diffent methods.Minus the butane of course. That would just give you tasteless wax with little bits of oil. Some delta 9 and lots of delta 8 or lower.You can extract the thc with water still, but not steam vapor.or get the oils with etoh. Or no solvent. Sound waves would do better than supercritical. Get a drum circle together and make morocan hash. Its fun. Cleaner and more potent than that shatter and wax your making.
An experienced well educated chemist can synthesize anything psychoactive or non using h2o as a starting point
What are you on about? Distilling off Terps first is the easiest way to get a solvent free Terp filled wax...you don't even have to do the second extract with a solvent you can do water hash and still add the essential oils to it for a super tasty extract made with only water and ice For those afraid of hydrocarbon extracts, I personally don't worry about the residual butane as I'm pretty sure I breath in more hydrocarbons at the gas station
 
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Jordan T

New Member
We typically yield 18/25%, depending on raw material, and tell how we are doing by examining the spent material afterwards with a 100X microscope for intact trichome heads. Only the stalk should be left behind.

Check E-bay for cheeep hand held and UBS microscopes. I'll check that out thanks!

If you had 24% potential and yielded 16%, I would say you have some opportunity for improvement. That's what I was thinking, hopefully next time I can get it better.

Beyond the mention of 5 cans of butane, you made no mention of process or equipment, soooo shall I infer you are open blasting??????????????? Open blasting, 1x 50 micron screen and 2 coffee filters. 15in glass extractor tube.

5 Cans (size?) for 70 grams is excessive open blasting. What diameter tube???????????? I used 5 cans of "Puretane" (10.14 fl OZ each).

How are you preparing and packing the material? Broke big nugs into "popcorn" size nugs and shoved it in the glass tube. I notice if I grind my material it turns my oil green.... I may have packed it to tight, could this cause issues on yield?

What temperature is the material column and what temperature is the butane? I stick the empty glass extractor in the freezer for a bit, so it keeps its liquid state longer when I blast. I leave my butane cans outside to keep them cold.

What vacuum levels are you running your oven. 29 Hg

Pull and snap can be soft for several reasons, one of which is retained solvent. Others are high monoterpene content, partial decarboxylation, or high plant wax content. After I winterized my bho it makes it more of a "shatter" material, I'm assuming because I stripped the plant wax and maybe any possible solvents.

FDA lists n- and Isobutane as GRAS, or generally regarded as safe. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title21-vol3/pdf/CFR-2012-title21-vol3-sec184-1165.pdf

FDA residual solvent standards for Class III solvents, allow <50mg/day maximum or 5000 ppm. Some locals have set the limits for dispensary products at 10% of that, or 50ppm.

They use it as a food propellant, for things like whipped cream, to put things in prospective, despite the abounding hysteria that sometimes surrounds butane residuals on forums.

If you are open blasting from cans, the question of mystery oil rears its ugly head. You didn't mention what brand you used, but here is some reference material: https://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-mystery-oil/ I used http://puretane.ca/index.php?route=common/home. 9 times filtered

Mystery oil is primarily longer chain hydrocarbon molecules, with higher boiling points, so they are easy to remove before hand using fractional distillation, but difficult to remove after extraction, without degrading the concentrate.

Both Hexane and Pentane are typically present in mystery oil, which are also simple fully saturated alkanes and relatively non toxic as well, but our livers turn them into 2.5 Diones, which are carcinogenic.

ASSuming one of the cleaner brands of "reagent grade" cigar lighter butane's, mystery oil levels are typically below regulated limits, so no reason to run yelling the sky is falling, but reason to pre-distill LPG to remove it before extraction.

Another is taste. Human threshold sensory perceptions for HC's are typically in the low PPM to high PPB levels, so mystery oil does add a butyl undertone.

Soooo, my best guess auguring the bones and chicken guts from here, is that you are probably below maximums, but the way you typically tell for sure is through GC head space sampling, which I suggest you have done, to dial in your process.
Responded to you in bold. I lost even more of my yield running it through a winterization (using everclear), but it's the smoothest stuff I've ever smoked. I have a lot of work to do cleaning up my process, still learning!
 
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Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
What diameter is your 15" glass tube? At 70 gm capacity, it looks larger than 1", which is the largest diameter I would recommend for open blasting.

I suggest that you load your column and freeze it overnight, and to chill your butane below -30C to minimize how much plant wax you pick up, so as to make winterization unnecessary.

No glaring opportunities. If you find intact heads, I would dump and repack before running again.
 

Jordan T

New Member
What diameter is your 15" glass tube? At 70 gm capacity, it looks larger than 1", which is the largest diameter I would recommend for open blasting.

I suggest that you load your column and freeze it overnight, and to chill your butane below -30C to minimize how much plant wax you pick up, so as to make winterization unnecessary.

No glaring opportunities. If you find intact heads, I would dump and repack before running again.
Wow 1" only? Both my 15" and 10" glass tubes have a 2" diameter. Exactly like these ones https://www.smoketower.ca/store/clear-extractor-tubes-12-15-18-24-inch.html
 

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
Wow 1" only? Both my 15" and 10" glass tubes have a 2" diameter. Exactly like these ones https://www.smoketower.ca/store/clear-extractor-tubes-12-15-18-24-inch.html
Liquid flow through the center of a tube is faster than at the edges, because of wall friction. When you inject under pressure, the material on both sides of the injection hole see minimal saturation, as the liquid seeks the easiest way out.

A long skinny tube sees more even flow that a short fat one. Too skinny and it is a pain in the ass to load and unload, and you end up over washing the entry material, to fully extract the material closer to the discharge.

Too fat and your efficiency falls off because of minimally washed material.

We found 1" the best compromise.

In a closed loop Terpenator system, we can flood from the bottom, to insure 100% saturation, so use fatter tubes, but not easy to do open blasting.
 
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