**benificial bacteria tea 'V's' water chiller

jijiandfarmgang said:

The lower the temp down to freezing the DO ability keeps increasing. Do you think there are any benefits to running a colder (within reason) reservoir?

Click to expand...

If you are asking if it's worth to for example get a chiller just to run a couple of degrees lower (than normal/acceptable) to increase the DO ability than no I don't think so. I have a chiller but it turns on only a couple of times per light on period and only during he first couple of weeks, i.e. till the canopy closes and the hps no longer heats up the rez. It's to prevent extremes, not to keep it as low as possible. Only a small amount of oxygen is actually needed to keep the water and the roots healthy. A much larger fraction from the recommended DO level (for a particular crop) is needed for the plant itself to produce properly. What it comes down to, is that you only need to refresh the oxygen faster than it depletes, which is doable at a wide range of temps. So while the colder water may be able to hold a little more oxygen, in practice enough is enough.

I run less than 1.0EC from start to finish in NFT, a little more on hempy, coco, dwc.

Heath posted some good info in these forum, his posts were amongst the first I started reading at rollitup, it all went downhill after that

This really has nothing to do with DO, ph, and nute strength; the exact same problems happen and are prevented in aquariums (with "bennies") where there are no nutes and the water is 80* and higher. Root rot is prevented by keeping the bad microbes in check with other good microbes. You can do everything perfect and still get slimed... light proof, low temps, high bubbles, salt/mineral nutes. While your next door neighbor doesn't even check temps and has huge light leaks and throws organic additives in the res and has never been slimed.

Everyone's setup has different bacteria in it... just looking at the human body alone, there are way more bacteria in your body than there are human cells, and everyone has different species in their bodies.
"A study led by Dr. Noah Fierer used a high-throughput method for PCR testing to identify the number and species of bacteria present on the hands of 51 undergraduate students leaving an exam room. Each student whose bacterial “fingerprint” – that is, their unique combination of bacteria – was sequenced, carried on average 3,200 bacteria from 150 species on their hands. Only five species were found on all the students’ hands, while any two hands – even belonging to the same person – had only 13% of their bacterial species in common.20"

http://mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/microbiota

why do people get sick? A bacterial/viral/fungal bloom in the body... it happens even to the healthiest athletes in the world. Of course having unhealthy roots by drowning them will fuck them up, just like eating processed garbage every day will make it easy for you to get sick, but that is not the cause of all root rot... and it can be prevented for pretty much 2 dollars a month.

jijiandfarmgang said:

I didn't look into alkaline solutions, will have to research that.

Click to expand...

Was just reminded of this by running into the source again:
http://www.eurohydro.com/pdf/articles/gb_pythium.pdf (GH Europe)

"It seems that Pythium will thrive better at high alkalinity levels, so keep your pH as low as possible, while following the plantʼs needs, of course."

iv gone the sterile route and everythings fine but i forgot to do the same for my cuttings and fucked them up lol


1-2 ppm chlorine
63 f res temp

Chlorine is the sterile route? h202 is the sterile route, so is Dutchmaster Zone, and many other similar products. I am not saying you are wrong but I have never heard of chlorine to sterilize for a hydroponic system. Chlorine is BAD for plants if anything....

Ok I'll be honest I stopped at page two, because no one I saw was running a chiller.... Buy a a fluppin chiller, from someone who owns one, you get Consistent root temp, I wish I had a comparison photo Of when I added a chiller it was like night and day, why deal with the hassle of brewing a ewc tea what if you miss a day or forget to add it... I add nutes and great white and have extremely thick white roots and my plants thrive!! I'm. Awful at keeping my res clean, but who cares the chiller keeps all bad bacteria at bay.

I've never used a chiller, EWC, H2O2, bleach, or anything to prevent root rot. The room itself being at the right temperature automatically sets the water at a decent temperature.

My waste water always comes out crystal clear when I dump the reservoirs, and the roots are always thick and healthy white.

I'm not saying not to get a water chiller, but it will not prevent noobs from making mistakes. Roots usually rot because they're dying or dead, not because the reservoir temperature is 5 degrees too high. The money is better spent elsewhere with noob DWC setups, yet it's always the first thing advised. Reservoir temperatures are discussed before things like ppm or what kind of nutrients are being used. It's actually pretty stupid and turns noobs off to DWC.

Focus on the basics first, and you likely won't get root rot.

Blakhash said:

Ok I'll be honest I stopped at page two, because no one I saw was running a chiller.... Buy a a fluppin chiller, from someone who owns one, you get Consistent root temp, I wish I had a comparison photo Of when I added a chiller it was like night and day, why deal with the hassle of brewing a ewc tea what if you miss a day or forget to add it... I add nutes and great white and have extremely thick white roots and my plants thrive!! I'm. Awful at keeping my res clean, but who cares the chiller keeps all bad bacteria at bay.

Click to expand...

Focus on keeping things from dying first, then you won't have to study up on mummification later.

churchhaze said:

I've never used a chiller, EWC, H2O2, bleach, or anything to prevent root rot. The room itself being at the right temperature automatically sets the water at a decent temperature.

My waste water always comes out crystal clear when I dump the reservoirs, and the roots are always thick and healthy white.

I'm not saying not to get a water chiller, but it will not prevent noobs from making mistakes. Roots usually rot because they're dying or dead, not because the reservoir temperature is 5 degrees too high. The money is better spent elsewhere with noob DWC setups, yet it's always the first thing advised. Reservoir temperatures are discussed before things like ppm or what kind of nutrients are being used. It's actually pretty stupid and turns noobs off to DWC.

Click to expand...

Because pathogens and bad bacteria begin producing after 68 degrees, you just said your water stays at a good temperature, not everyone has that type of consistency on their side, so step of your high horse for one second. Water chillers prevent your roots from dieing in the first place. I've heard of many people getting away with using tap water, organic, with high water temp and not a single rot in sight, they are the lucky ones... Well for the rest of us normal folk who take all necessary precautions(sterile res, no light leaks, bennies) and still run into root rot, Controlling your res temp at a solid 65 will slow and even stop %99 of bad bacteria... Try reading a book. Ok you can get back on your high horse now and clap along.

churchhaze said:

You don't need to do either. Water chillers and bennies is like throwing salt over your shoulder here on RIU.

Just make sure the reservoir ppm and pH is right, and that you have the right ratio of essential elements.

Click to expand...

Bruh... what?

Enzymes and bennies are like throwing salt over your shoulder?


Please nobody take this to heart when forming a consensus on microbiology.

churchhaze said:

Focus on keeping things from dying first, then you won't have to study up on mummification later.

Click to expand...

They die from brown algae, root rot, the Minute you add over 200ppm, the algae/rot go. To town and begin eating all the nutrients and thriving on the oxygen rich environment thus chocking out the roots and raising the PH causing NUTE LOCKOUT. Roots don't just commit suicide for fun. The only options are ewc tea or Chiller, for anyone not wanting to constantly brew tea then get a chiller, for the purists get the bunnies/tea.

hydroMD said:

Bruh... what?

Enzymes and bennies are like throwing salt over your shoulder?


Please nobody take this to heart when forming a consensus on microbiology.

Click to expand...

Dude, my sayings exactly, I don't know why someone would say such an off the wall saying... And then speak for everyone on riu...

In all my experience using DWC, I've never had that happen. Not even once. Even when I accidentally let light through and algae grows, the roots are still a healthy white, with algae on them. a lot of the advice given on RIU really is superstitious to a degree, yes. The theories might be true, but the extend of their trueness is exaggerated greatly.

This isn't just a theory of mine. I've never used water chilling or bennies, and have never had an issue.

Blakhash said:

They die from brown algae, root rot, the Minute you add over 200ppm, the algae/rot go. To town and begin eating all the nutrients and thriving on the oxygen rich environment thus chocking out the roots and raising the PH causing NUTE LOCKOUT. Roots don't just commit suicide for fun. The only options are ewc tea or Chiller, for anyone not wanting to constantly brew tea then get a chiller, for the purists get the bunnies/tea.

Click to expand...

Blakhash said:

I've heard of many people getting away with using tap water, organic, with high water temp and not a single rot in sight, they are the lucky ones... Well for the rest of us normal folk who take all necessary precautions

Click to expand...

Now hold on one second. This is a STRAW MAN argument. I never advocated using organics in a DWC!! NOT ONCE, in fact I always give the opposite advice!!!

INORGANIC SALTS IN DWC ONLY!!!!

Blakhash said:

Try reading a book. .

Click to expand...

Try having as much as experience with DWC as me.

I have more book knowledge, and more REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE with DWC. You tell me my roots will rot. I'm telling you they're pearly white.

churchhaze said:

Focus on keeping things from dying first, then you won't have to study up on mummification later.

Click to expand...

Your trolling.... but I dont think you know your trolling!

A) Enzymes and microbiology create a much more forgiving environment than that without it

B) Higher resistance to pathogens

C) No need for keeping EC high for dense flowers eliminating risk of burn on a high water intake day.

D) A clean reservoir is half the battle in hydro... Ever try to grow a 16 week sativa in dwc without bennies? Some strange things will pop up. Thats how you get real good at battling pathogens.

D) Better nutrient uptake

E) Better yields

F) Better quality



All of these things and more come from establishing a symbiotic relationship between your plant and its medium.

Thats like telling a kid he can play basketball but not to shoot the ball his first season.

That's all very interesting, but also bullshit. This is DWC we're talking about here, not soil.

hydroMD said:

Your trolling.... but I dont think you know your trolling!

A) Enzymes and microbiology create a much more forgiving environment than that without it

B) Higher resistance to pathogens

C) No need for keeping EC high for dense flowers eliminating risk of burn on a high water intake day.

D) A clean reservoir is half the battle in hydro... Ever try to grow a 16 week sativa in dwc without bennies? Some strange things will pop up. Thats how you get real good at battling pathogens.

D) Better nutrient uptake

E) Better yields

F) Better quality



All of these things and more come from establishing a symbiotic relationship between your plant and its medium.

Thats like telling a kid he can play basketball but not to shoot the ball his first season.

Click to expand...

churchhaze said:

Try having as much as experience with DWC as me.

I have more book knowledge, and more REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE with DWC. You tell me my roots will rot. I'm telling you they're pearly white.

Click to expand...

Lets see a bud, bud


And clean roots are only a slice of the pie my friend

hydroMD said:

Lets see a bud, bud


And clean roots are only a slice of the pie my friend

Click to expand...

Here's a light leak, no chiller, no bennies. Green stains, strong healthy roots, crystal clear water. I know how to do DWC, my friend.

(Of course the light leak was corrected, but who cares.... The algae washed right off)

My main point is that when people do get root rot, it's usually because they're fucking something else up, usually with the nutrients or not enough bubbles.

If you use a well balanced hydroponic nutrient formula based on calcium nitrate (no urea), the roots are more likely to thrive than turn mushy and brown.