Beneficial Microbes

Wedum Boise

Wedum Boise

Well-Known Member
I'm a newbie from Boston and very excited that recreational might pass on the November ballot. I'm looking to obviously start growing and I've been doing some research on organic growing. I ran across some information about beneficial microbes, How do you apply the tea onto your plants and how often? What are the threshold of the beneficials you are looking to have on your plant and is there such a thing as too much? Also what are the most common microbes do you suggest?
 
Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
id honestly just use great white from start to finish- its got a really wide range of microbes from bacteria to fungi. Brewing the tea can be a bit tricky, and really only breeds new bacteria for you. Using great white on its own (from seedling/clones and on) gives you a really great diversity. It's a bit expensive, and the tea route is defffinitely cheaper, but even with the tea i still supplement with great white.
 
b4ds33d

b4ds33d

Well-Known Member
are you using soil to grow? if you are doing any form of hydro including aero or using a soilless mixture, microbes have zero benefit and you shouldn't worry about them. growing in soil, if you inoculate the soil initially, just use a diluted non-sulfured molasses. these marketed products are a waste of money. the plant itself will feed the rhizosphere by excreting glucose throughout the rootzone, but if you use molasses this allows the plant to keep that glucose for itself and raises the brix giving you better quality bud. the higher your brix, the least likely you will be to get pests or have plant disease issues. again, you don't need anything but molasses if you are growing in soil.
 
Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
b4ds33d said:
are you using soil to grow? if you are doing any form of hydro including aero or using a soilless mixture, microbes have zero benefit and you shouldn't worry about them. growing in soil, if you inoculate the soil initially, just use a diluted non-sulfured molasses. these marketed products are a waste of money. the plant itself will feed the rhizosphere by excreting glucose throughout the rootzone, but if you use molasses this allows the plant to keep that glucose for itself and raises the brix giving you better quality bud. the higher your brix, the least likely you will be to get pests or have plant disease issues. again, you don't need anything but molasses if you are growing in soil.
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Really does depend on the microbe- if pyth can survive in your rez, so can other stuff. I'm sure most of the species die off pretty quick, but at east hydroguard and a few others have bacillus strains that should survive in the res. If you can't keep any bacteria alive in your rez, then good! I suppose if everything is going well, most of it will die off before the next rez change.

Keeping mychs/trichs alive.... probably impossible, or at least very hard. I have top-fed net pots that get a timed drip, and lots of rockwool. I try to inoculate top-down directly, and everything will hold a nice shroomy smell for maybe a week or so.
 
Wedum Boise

Wedum Boise

Well-Known Member
Yesdog said:
Really does depend on the microbe- if pyth can survive in your rez, so can other stuff. I'm sure most of the species die off pretty quick, but at east hydroguard and a few others have bacillus strains that should survive in the res. If you can't keep any bacteria alive in your rez, then good! I suppose if everything is going well, most of it will die off before the next rez change.

Keeping mychs/trichs alive.... probably impossible, or at least very hard. I have top-fed net pots that get a timed drip, and lots of rockwool. I try to inoculate top-down directly, and everything will hold a nice shroomy smell for maybe a week or so.
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So you don't inoculate directly into the soil, that's interesting. I wonder if that timed drip reduces the competing factor with the microbes and gives them time to propagate and nourish the rhizosphere. Do you think it's hard to keep trichs alive because a lot of the products out there have a low ratio of trichs? Fungi grows extremely slow... typically 7 days. Have you tried doing a pre-culture and try to raise the quants of microbes?
 
Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Wedum Boise said:
So you don't inoculate directly into the soil, that's interesting. I wonder if that timed drip reduces the competing factor with the microbes and gives them time to propagate and nourish the rhizosphere. Do you think it's hard to keep trichs alive because a lot of the products out there have a low ratio of trichs? Fungi grows extremely slow... typically 7 days. Have you tried doing a pre-culture and try to raise the quants of microbes?
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Err sorry, I keep forgetting I'm not on the hydro form. So this is for DWC hydro- I think for soil you just want to inoculate + molasses/carbs.

I think the timed drip definitely helps circulate things- whatever microbes are in the rez itself will basically be re-inoculated top-down from the net pots- plus it should be moist enough and provide a solid enough substrate for mycelium to form. As far as keeping trichoderma alive, the only thing I really know is that they don't like rapid water movement, they need some plant waste to survive, and they work better when top inoculated. So naturally hydroponics isn't a great fit, but I read plenty of things saying its possible and recommended- just harder than soil.

I think yesterday I just started to get hit with root rot again, so whatever im doing, its definitely not perfect ;)
 
Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
If you're that excited about microbes, join us soil folks!
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Yea I'm thinking I might go soil for my mothers. I don't need to do anything crazy to stimulate growth, really just need em to stay alive. Been experimenting with my houseplants lol. Got some creeping myrtle that's realllllllly loving the bennie treatment.
 
Wedum Boise

Wedum Boise

Well-Known Member
Yesdog said:
Err sorry, I keep forgetting I'm not on the hydro form. So this is for DWC hydro- I think for soil you just want to inoculate + molasses/carbs.

I think the timed drip definitely helps circulate things- whatever microbes are in the rez itself will basically be re-inoculated top-down from the net pots- plus it should be moist enough and provide a solid enough substrate for mycelium to form. As far as keeping trichoderma alive, the only thing I really know is that they don't like rapid water movement, they need some plant waste to survive, and they work better when top inoculated. So naturally hydroponics isn't a great fit, but I read plenty of things saying its possible and recommended- just harder than soil.

I think yesterday I just started to get hit with root rot again, so whatever im doing, its definitely not perfect ;)
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Thank you for clarifying. Is your roots above the water thats rotting?
 
Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Wedum Boise said:
Thank you for clarifying. Is your roots above the water thats rotting?
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Nah, it's the stuff below the water line- much easier to manage. Getting root rot at/near the crown is really bad. I keep a really large margin between my pots and the water line too- so everything in the middle is misted by waterfalls and top-fed from the drippers. My plants so far decided it was just easier to grow more roots lol Getting some healthy new leaf growth too, so must not bother em that much.

EDIT: there's a big ball at least twice that size right under the waterline, it's pretty tightly balled up which makes a great spot for root rot to start (less oxygenated water, more plant waste).

 
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Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Wedum Boise said:
So you don't inoculate directly into the soil, that's interesting. I wonder if that timed drip reduces the competing factor with the microbes and gives them time to propagate and nourish the rhizosphere. Do you think it's hard to keep trichs alive because a lot of the products out there have a low ratio of trichs? Fungi grows extremely slow... typically 7 days. Have you tried doing a pre-culture and try to raise the quants of microbes?
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And in response to the 7 days thing- yea, it takes a while. It's usually a pretty good idea to start exposing seedlings to trich/mych right away, even during or right after germination. This allows the fungus to grow more easily with (and inside) the roots, doing it afterwards and your plant and the fungus have a lot of syncing up to do.
 
Wedum Boise

Wedum Boise

Well-Known Member
Yesdog said:
Nah, it's the stuff below the water line- much easier to manage. Getting root rot at/near the crown is really bad. I keep a really large margin between my pots and the water line too- so everything in the middle is misted by waterfalls and top-fed from the drippers. My plants so far decided it was just easier to grow more roots lol Getting some healthy new leaf growth too, so must not bother em that much.

EDIT: there's a big ball at least twice that size right under the waterline, it's pretty tightly balled up which makes a great spot for root rot to start (less oxygenated water, more plant waste).

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Just by looking at the leaves you would think it's nutrient burn. What are you doing to treat the root rot? add bacillus amyloliquefaciens?
 
Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Wedum Boise said:
Just by looking at the leaves you would think it's nutrient burn. What are you doing to treat the root rot? add bacillus amyloliquefaciens?
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yea my plants went through a hard last two weeks with an intense ph battle, lots of damaged leaves. i think that one might have actually been N deficiency- was flushing with plain water for a while. Slowly trimming and removing most of it as i see new growth. finally got things mostly stabilized though and back and full strength nutes, starting to see decent growth now.

I'm using Great White and Hydroguard (one of those strong bacillus strains) right now. I don't smell anything funky from the rez, so at least its not critical yet. Once the plant, the bacteria and the rez all stabalize it should hopefully go away. There's just been a lot of changes down there lately lol
 
Wedum Boise

Wedum Boise

Well-Known Member
Yesdog said:
yea my plants went through a hard last two weeks with an intense ph battle, lots of damaged leaves. i think that one might have actually been N deficiency- was flushing with plain water for a while. Slowly trimming and removing most of it as i see new growth. finally got things mostly stabilized though and back and full strength nutes, starting to see decent growth now.

I'm using Great White and Hydroguard (one of those strong bacillus strains) right now. I don't smell anything funky from the rez, so at least its not critical yet. Once the plant, the bacteria and the rez all stabalize it should hopefully go away. There's just been a lot of changes down there lately lol
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Wow this is great stuff, I know once I start growing I'm going to be hit without a lot challenges and questions. Good thing I found this forum to get some awesome advice ;) I've been doing some research on these microbes and trying to get feedback on what are the challenges dealing with them and if there are a ways to solve those problems. Fortunate enough for me I work for a company that develops genetic assays to detect the bad microbes on a plant that labs use to test products from dispensaries. But I think we can create something useful and affordable to help growers. Personally I think I will go with a hydroponic setup but I foresee water temp control is going to be something to monitor carefully in the rez.
 
Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Oh shit! Bio assays, I'm in. Get a friend's and family discount? ;)

That's really cool, you pretty much have to run a live hydro res now! Having access to good bio analytics stuff could really get you far.
 
Yesdog

Yesdog

Well-Known Member
Even if you can figure out ideal incubation, activation, and innoculation for one of these single strain hydro microbes, you could save so much money on commercial inoculants.
 
Wedum Boise

Wedum Boise

Well-Known Member
Yesdog said:
Even if you can figure out ideal incubation, activation, and innoculation for one of these single strain hydro microbes, you could save so much money on commercial inoculants.
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I will definitely keep you posted once we have something concrete to test on real life samples. Based on my experience I've grown out Trichoderma H. from a lyophilized sample and it takes about a week to have a viable culture. For some microbes it's recommend to do a subculture before inoculation to increase viability. So I'm not sure how efficient it is, depending on what state these microbes are in, to fully dump them into your hydro and expect a viable propagation.
 
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