Article from NORML About Craiglist Marijuana in Michigan

Discussion in 'Michigan Patients' started by deprave, Jun 12, 2011.

  1.  
    deprave

    deprave New Member

    Cannabis On Craigslist: A Prosecutor’s Dream
    Fri, 10 Jun 2011 16:41:50 By: Allen St. Pierre, NORML Executive Director
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    Michigan Medical Marijuana Act: Keep Your Business and Medicine Legal
    By Matthew Donigian, NORML Legal Intern, University of Illinois — College of Law

    On November 4, 2008 63 percent of Michigan voters enacted the Michigan Medical Marihuana Program (MMMP). Since then the state of Michigan has registered over 75,000 patients, who are now eligible to receive medical marijuana for serious illnesses, including: Cancer, HIV, glaucoma, severe/chronic pain, severe nausea, etc. Like other states that have passed medical marijuana legislation, Michigan has made it safer for patients to receive the medicine they need. However, marijuana is still far from legal and both patients and caregivers should be sure they understand the limitations of the law.
    Under Michigan law, medical marijuana patients who have been issued a registry identification card are allowed to possess up to 2.5 ounces of marijuana. Additionally, medical marijuana patients are allowed to grow up to 12 marijuana plants. However, patients who choose to grow their own marijuana cannot have a caregiver growing for them.
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    Caregivers are required to follow laws similar to those followed by patients. Caregivers are required to register with a patient and the state, and if they are not registered as a patient’s caregiver, they may NOT dispense marijuana to them. Caregivers are allowed to register up to 5 patients and may possess up to 2.5 ounces of marijuana for each of their patients. If a patient has registered a caregiver to cultivate marijuana for them, the caregiver may keep up to 12 plants for that patient.
    Restrictions on the amount of marijuana caregivers may possess can be difficult to follow.
    First, it is difficult to know how much marijuana a plant will yield. This can make it difficult to stay under the 2.5 ounces allowed per registered patient. And since the weight of marijuana fluctuates greatly when the plant is being dried it is difficult to know how much a plant has actually yielded.[​IMG]
    Second, many caregivers use clones of plants when growing a new crop, by taking cuttings from an adult plant and re-rooting them. However, the legality of this process is unclear. Since Michigan law only allows 12 plants per patient, and since clones must be cut before a plant has fully matured, it can be difficult for growers to stay under the number of plants allowed by the law, especially if they are already maintaining 12 plants per patient at the time the clones are cut.
    In order to avoid having more marijuana than the law allows, many growers have begun selling dried marijuana or plants to qualified patients via craigslist. It is important to understand that this practice is ILLEGAL. Caregivers are only allowed to sell marijuana to their registered patients, and any other sale could lead to fines and/or imprisonment.
    Caregivers should re-evaluate their business practices in order to stay in compliance with the law. Their safety and the safety of their patients depend upon it. More information may be attained by visiting Michigan’s online resource for the MMMP or by calling NORML at (202) 483-5500.

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  2.  
    hic

    hic Well-Known Member

    I cannot legaly give overages to a patient that is not mine? That is how I am reading this and have heard of something similiar somewhere else.
  3.  
    jonnynobody

    jonnynobody Well-Known Member

    No precedent has been set in the courts yet so that interpretation is up for grabs at the moment. If I were a caregiver, I don't think I'd be comfortable providing anything to somebody that hasn't filed the paperwork to designate me as their caregiver. Selfish as it sounds, I'd rather see some other ballsy martyr serve as a test case rather than put myself out there as the guinea pig.
  4.  
    hic

    hic Well-Known Member

    I am sure glad I do not live my life like you. but thanks for the input.
  5.  
    jonnynobody

    jonnynobody Well-Known Member

    Ya, it's called understanding risk dude. I'll err on the side of safety as I don't like jeopardizing my freedom. Cages never really were my thing but to each their own.
  6.  
    hic

    hic Well-Known Member


    Exactly to each their own continue being a nobody. Not trying to be rude but you seem like kind of like a sissy to me and if that is the case I am done speaking with you.

    I am curious on the topic of legality because the law states a caregiver may acuire marijuana for his or her patient.
  7.  
    euthanatos93420

    euthanatos93420 Well-Known Member

    What the fuck NORML? No it's not. The MMPA explicitly states patient and caregiver protection over EXACTLY this sort of activity. There's no 'vague wording' at all.
  8.  
    hic

    hic Well-Known Member

    I like the sig euthanatos93420 fucers take things waaaay to serious this time around.lol
  9.  
    eruannon

    eruannon Member

    You really should check your facts before you say things that could get people in trouble. The FAQ page straight from the Michigan Government website states:

    [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"The MMMA provides for a system of designated caregivers. The caregiver can acquire 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana and grow up to 12 marihuana plants for a qualifying patient. The caregiver may assist up to 5 patients. The caregiver must sign a statement agreeing to provide marihuana only to the qualifying patients who have named the individual as their caregiver. The caregiver's name, address, birth date and social security number must be provided to the state at the time of a patient's registration. The Department will issue a registry identification card to the caregiver who is named by a qualifying patient on his/her application. The Department may not issue a registry identification card to a proposed caregiver who has previously been convicted of a felony drug offense. The Department will verify through a background check with the Michigan State Police that the designated caregiver has no disqualifying felony drug conviction. A caregiver may receive reasonable compensation for services provided to assist with a qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana.[/SIZE][/FONT]"

    This language is backed up by the language in the statute itself. Unless the Michigan Supreme Court interprets the statute differently, it is dangerous to sell to anyone that is not registered as your patient.
  10.  
    jonnynobody

    jonnynobody Well-Known Member

    I take it that you're in a situation where your activities don't put loved ones at risk...well that isn't my situation dude. No reason to go around calling people sissy's just because they have to consider putting loved ones in the line of fire just to make a political statement. Anyhow, getting back on topic...the following sections are pretty clear as far as I can tell which seems to support norml's position but if anybody sees something I don't, speak up:

    (b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:
    (1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and

    (2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and


    I can't find anything in the law that specifically allows or disallows patient to patient transfer or caregiver to caregiver transfer. What you do see in the text of the law is a very defined caregiver patient relationship within the confines of the registration process, but the law remains silent on any other type of transfer. An interesting paragraph that should be a hot topic of discussion relating to this issue is:

    (k) Any registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver who sells marihuana to someone who is not allowed to use marihuana for medical purposes under this act shall have his or her registry identification card revoked and is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both, in addition to any other penalties for the distribution of marihuana.

    That particular paragraph criminally penalizes any caregiver or patient selling to somebody who is NOT allowed to use mmj under state law. Does that then imply that if a registered caregiver or patient sells to another registered caregiver or patient, that action is allowed and not criminally penalized? In other words, as long as the involved parties in the transaction are registered cg's or patients and the possession limits are not breached, the transaction is legal...?
  11.  
    euthanatos93420

    euthanatos93420 Well-Known Member

    So don't. But don't be touting fear as law or its interpretation. Leave the front line pickets alone if you don't want to be there and no one is criticizing you for it. This is a community effort and we are working together on this. No disrespect.



    Crop failures, cyclical underages & overages due to following constraints of provision. It's not so subtle that procuring cannabis through either cultivation or purchase is clearly 'assisting a qualifying patient'.
  12.  
    eruannon

    eruannon Member

    The scary thing is that the affirmative defense that may be able to be raised by a CG or patient is very vague, and is up to interpretation by a judge. Since the statute does not specifically state the CG's can sell to anyone but there patients, it is not safe to do otherwise. The law makes a big point of setting a limit on the number of patients that can be registered with a caregiver. A good prosecutor can kill your affirmative defense and you cannot be positive that a judge will rule that the statute implies CG to CG or P to P transfers are legal.
  13.  
    hic

    hic Well-Known Member

    (c) Although federal law currently prohibits any use of marihuana except under very limited circumstances, states are not required to enforce federal law or prosecute people for engaging in activities prohibited by federal law. The laws of Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Washington do not penalize the medical use and cultivation of marihuana. Michigan joins in this effort for the health and welfare of its citizens


    Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7, a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:
    (1) A physician has stated that, in the physician's professional opinion, after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition;
    (2) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were collectively in possession of a quantity of marihuana that was not more than was reasonably necessary to ensure the uninterrupted availability of marihuana for the purpose of treating or alleviating the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition; and
    (3) The patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if any, were engaged in the acquisition, possession, cultivation, manufacture, use, delivery, transfer, or transportation of marihuana or paraphernalia relating to the use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition.

    Acquisition - that word is 3 lines up from the bottom, and is enough for me to get the fuc outta jail and file a law suite against the state for various reasons. As it stands now my pot may be worth more dead then alive to me. I welcome the encounter with open arms.
    euthanatos93420 likes this.
  14.  
    jonnynobody

    jonnynobody Well-Known Member

  15.  
    euthanatos93420

    euthanatos93420 Well-Known Member

    Also implied. "Primary" caregiver as it were that there might be 'secondary caregivers'. That these seconrdary are primary to another set of up to 5 individual patients representing PRIMARILY their own =>5 interested parties and also every other MMJP in the state by proxy of being a Secondary Caregiver because that how a real state community paradigm works.
    hic likes this.
  16.  
    jonnynobody

    jonnynobody Well-Known Member

    That's some pretty heavy hitter stuff in that section and this opens a whole 'nother can of worms. This section simply says 'patient' and 'primary caregiver' rather than 'registered qualifying patient' and 'registered caregiver' anybody else noticing that? patient and primary caregiver are NOT defined in the definitions section of the law. It seems rather intentional that the drafters of this initiative specifically left out the 'registered' part in this paragraph. In addition to that, this paragraph really seems to expand the scope of who can use the affirmative defense as it simply references patients and primary caregivers in the broad definition but leaves out the defined terms of the initiative, registered qualifying patient and registered caregiver.
  17.  
    euthanatos93420

    euthanatos93420 Well-Known Member

    registration is registration documentation and authentication is docnauth.
  18.  
    hic

    hic Well-Known Member

    I would never let the judge be my judge unless I knew of his character which I know none. I would go jury trial all the way and plead my case to my brothers instead of an out of touch taker.
  19.  
    euthanatos93420

    euthanatos93420 Well-Known Member

    The beauty and responsibility of democracy with a system of checks and balances means the your responsibility as a citizen is not 'done' when victory over congress & senate has been achieved.
  20.  
    hic

    hic Well-Known Member

    So true it is our job to govern the government. We have already let it get too damn far with marijuana being a federal crime. That jonny is why I will stand and swing if I have to.. for my kids. My father and grandfathers generation were too fearfull to get er done. So now it is generation x's turn at bat with even a bigger government.

    Unlike my father and his father I will not be growing corn. And again welcome any opposition that will help shape my childrens childrens world for the better. Marijuana has chosen me and I it to help assist me in and on my path of life.

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