"Area 51 LED" Information and discussion

JimmyIndica

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
Wait, is June the month Area 51 drops the new lineup?
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I am quite sure it was said on here couple weeks ago?June cant remember who though. wish I could buy em next week. I just have to settle with couple more RWs! Doesn't bother me to much. They are quality units. I will by the new A51s in July also.
 
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greatbranch

Well-Known Member
Somebody want to give me the short version, and save me sifting through all of the BS, of why Veros are so much better than the previous lamps? I am assuming brightness factor and efficiency just in advancement of technology. Contextually, it sounds like there is more possibility in fine tuning of spectrum, but I could be making that up.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
greatbranch said:
Somebody want to give me the short version, and save me sifting through all of the BS, of why Veros are so much better than the previous lamps? I am assuming brightness factor and efficiency just in advancement of technology. Contextually, it sounds like there is more possibility in fine tuning of spectrum, but I could be making that up.
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From a manufactures point of view, such as Optic, they are easier to assemble (convenience) whereas previous LED panels with monochromatic diodes required dozens of units/chips in order to complete a winning spectrum, such as Area 51's red/white combo, therefore reducing assembly time and raising potential profit.

You can ask anyone who has done a DIY project with both monochromatic LED (660nm, 440nm, and so on) and COBs and they will tell you the COB project was less time consuming.

I think it's more effective too to have a blend of PAR/light given from one COB source, with great intensity, than it is to fit a bunch of mono's in a tight formation in order to attempt to get the same effects but at less impact.

Overall, COBs are basically the next frontier of LED lighting and will progressively get better and better until they are the only choice of lighting for all lighting-purposes.
 
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Bluefish76

Member
When will he stick with one model and do continuous manufacturing runs? I have the XGS and already want to add, but I'm worried the next model will just be replaced with a completely different series w/ different colors, wattage, etc.
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
From a manufactures point of view, such as Optic, they are easier to assemble
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On the other hand, that results in more concentrated, single-source lighting. I kind of like the diffusion that comes from many sources spread out more.

I still wish he'd do the 10w XML lights he was planning. That sounded interesting, in 2'x6" "bars" that could be joined together to create a monolithic fixture, or hung separately for distribution and coverage, dimmer for smaller grows.

I haven't used COB so I could be wrong. But, concentrating light sources into fewer, smaller locations doesn't seem like the best design. Someone posted something about Phillips COBs. They claim to be the smallest COB. Now it's like we're going back to discrete diodes. Pretty soon one of these companies will boast a 1/2" diameter COB and I bet growers will jump on that as better because the light can be spread out more.

Sorry, I'm just cynical.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
On the other hand, that results in more concentrated, single-source lighting. I kind of like the diffusion that comes from many sources spread out more.

I still wish he'd do the 10w XML lights he was planning. That sounded interesting, in 2'x6" "bars" that could be joined together to create a monolithic fixture, or hung separately for distribution and coverage, dimmer for smaller grows.

I haven't used COB so I could be wrong. But, concentrating light sources into fewer, smaller locations doesn't seem like the best design. Someone posted something about Phillips COBs. They claim to be the smallest COB. Now it's like we're going back to discrete diodes. Pretty soon one of these companies will boast a 1/2" diameter COB and I bet growers will jump on that as better because the light can be spread out more.

Sorry, I'm just cynical.
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Maybe, just maybe, some one or some company will emerge with a product or products that takes the best of both worlds (concentrated, spread coverage) and implements it into an affordable and effective COB fixture.

Just being optimistic and all.

;).

I don't pay attention to Phillips' products. You should buy some Vero COBs to play with.
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Jeff told me part of the delay was deciding on which LED to go with because the manufactures released so many great options in the last few months and he needed to study all the new options before ordering all the other needed parts. Reliable availability of his choice would also be a factor.
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
On the other hand, that results in more concentrated, single-source lighting. I kind of like the diffusion that comes from many sources spread out more.

I still wish he'd do the 10w XML lights he was planning. That sounded interesting, in 2'x6" "bars" that could be joined together to create a monolithic fixture, or hung separately for distribution and coverage, dimmer for smaller grows.

I haven't used COB so I could be wrong. But, concentrating light sources into fewer, smaller locations doesn't seem like the best design. Someone posted something about Phillips COBs. They claim to be the smallest COB. Now it's like we're going back to discrete diodes. Pretty soon one of these companies will boast a 1/2" diameter COB and I bet growers will jump on that as better because the light can be spread out more.

Sorry, I'm just cynical.
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Jeff said he may still do a red/white panel with XP-L's later in the year,that may depend on how well the COB fixture does,we'll just have to wait and see.
 
nogod_

nogod_

Well-Known Member
Agree with this and Panta.

Its possible to do this with smaller cobs [vero10, vero13, cxa15xx, cxa25xx, etc.] albeit expensive.

My goal is somewhere between 7w-35w emitters over 50%. It is proving to be an expensive obsession.

At this point legit companies are going to have to start shifting to cobs or get left in the dust. Imagine the price of v29s if you are buying thousands at a time. Couple that with better efficiency than xpls and waaaaay faster/simpler assembly and i doubt anyone is going to even consider diffusion [I still do].

az2000 said:
On the other hand, that results in more concentrated, single-source lighting. I kind of like the diffusion that comes from many sources spread out more.

I still wish he'd do the 10w XML lights he was planning. That sounded interesting, in 2'x6" "bars" that could be joined together to create a monolithic fixture, or hung separately for distribution and coverage, dimmer for smaller grows.

I haven't used COB so I could be wrong. But, concentrating light sources into fewer, smaller locations doesn't seem like the best design. Someone posted something about Phillips COBs. They claim to be the smallest COB. Now it's like we're going back to discrete diodes. Pretty soon one of these companies will boast a 1/2" diameter COB and I bet growers will jump on that as better because the light can be spread out more.

Sorry, I'm just cynical.
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
(opinions)
Vero29 offers the best efficiency to $/PAR W compromise, making it most suited for commercial LED grow lamps and has the advantage of better availability
The CXB could be geared more toward those who benefit from high efficiency (high electric cost, hot climates, stealth requirements etc) and is appealing for DIY
XML2/XPL is out of the race, no high bin 3K that I have seen, but the 4K is perfect for 3.6V headlamps

Value:
Vero V2.0 29 3K @ 2.1A (80W) = 40% for $0.90/PAR W (bingo!)
CXB3070 3K AD @ 2.1A (80W) = 42% for $1.20/PAR W
CXB3590 3K CB @ 1.4A (104W) = 40% for $1.25/PAR W

Value and Spread:
CXB2530 3K U2 @ .8A (30W) = 44.2% for $1.10/PAR W
Vero10 V2.0 3000K @ .35A (9W) = 37% for $1.20/PAR W

Spread:
XPL 3900K V4 @ 2.1A (7W) = 37% for $2.00/PAR W

Efficiency and Spread:
CXB2530 3K U2 @ .35A (12W) = 52.4% for $2.20/PAR W
CXB3070 3K AD @ 1.05A (36W) = 51.3% for $2.10/PAR W

Max Efficiency and Spread
CXB3070 3K AD @ .7A (23W) = 55.4% for $3.00/PAR W
CXB3590 3K CB @ .35A (23W) = 58.7% for $3.80/PAR W

(caveat)
The figures above are assuming 4.33% temp droop at Tj 50C for the Veros, per the datasheet. But my measurements show only 2% temp droop, repeatably. Assuming there are no systemic errors in my test, typical efficiency for the Vero29 3K V1.2 would be about 38.3% and for the Vero 29 3K V2.0 @ 2.1A would be about 41%. I think these are the efficiencies we will be dealing with in the most competitively priced commercial LED lamps.
 
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nogod_

nogod_

Well-Known Member
efficiency/spread category :clap:

SupraSPL said:
(opinions)
Vero29 offers the best efficiency to $/PAR W compromise, making it most suited for commercial LED grow lamps and has the advantage of better availability
The CXB could be geared more toward those who benefit from high efficiency (high electric cost, hot climates, stealth requirements etc) and is appealing for DIY
XML2/XPL is out of the race, no high bin 3K that I have seen, but the 4K is perfect for 3.6V headlamps

Value:
Vero V2.0 29 3K @ 2.1A (80W) = 40% for $0.90/PAR W (bingo!)
CXB3070 3K AD @ 2.1A (80W) = 42% for $1.20/PAR W
CXB3590 3K CB @ 1.4A (104W) = 40% for $1.25/PAR W

Value and Spread:
CXB2530 3K U2 @ .8A (30W) = 44.2% for $1.10/PAR W
Vero10 V2.0 3000K @ .35A (9W) = 37% for $1.20/PAR W

Spread:
XPL 3900K V4 @ 2.1A (7W) = 37% for $2.00/PAR W

Efficiency and Spread:
CXB2530 3K U2 @ .35A (12W) = 52.4% for $2.20/PAR W
CXB3070 3K AD @ 1.05A (36W) = 51.3% for $2.10/PAR W

Max Efficiency and Spread
CXB3070 3K AD @ .7A (23W) = 55.4% for $3.00/PAR W
CXB3590 3K CB @ .35A (23W) = 58.7% for $3.80/PAR W

(caveat)
The figures above are assuming 4.33% temp droop at Tj 50C for the Veros, per the datasheet. But my measurements show only 2% temp droop, repeatably. Assuming there are no systemic errors in my test, typical efficiency for the Vero29 3K V1.2 would be about 38.3% and for the Vero 29 3K V2.0 @ 2.1A would be about 41%. I think these are the efficiencies we will be dealing with in the most competitively priced commercial LED lamps.
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THCbreeder

THCbreeder

Well-Known Member
When will we have an update as when the new models will be price watts coverage etc or even a roundabout idea ? I'm in no rush , would just like to have a figure saved up in my mind to save for . That's all.
 
Swiller

Swiller

Well-Known Member
My A51 (150 watts) has outproduced my Onyx bloom (220 watts) for two grows. I ordered another A51. The Onyx is sitting on the shelf, but will be used in the future. Crop after crop of excellent organically soil grown Madman OG with A51. Frosty and no complaints since the HPS gone.
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
THCbreeder said:
Yea well Jeff will disclose probably when he knows more details and has everything priced out and which cobs he selects . Well any hints would be greatly appreciated .
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I'm sure we will find out more, as a community, about the details, including prices, the nearer we approach June, as I was told June was the target for release.

In the meantime, enjoy those new panels you just got :grin:. Who knows, maybe those play better with the babies then just pure COBS :blsmoke:.
 
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