Are my clones cannibalizing themselves?

shawnery

shawnery

Well-Known Member
Plants in the second week of transplant into my RDWC. Clones showed roots after 7 days but just a peek. Next day I cleaned out the system, with h202 and water, and refilled with solution.
Since the day after switching out the solution I've had roughly an inch to an inch and a half every day of stem growth. I've also had a good deal of root growth but not on the same level.
New growth is light green but gets darker as new growth comes in. The bottom larger leaves are dying slowly as new growth comes in. The cycle keeps continuing but as I said the growth over all is fast.
The other strange thing is that the clones are starting to bush out and grow secondary stems as if I topped it. They're really getting quite dense in stem growth even though old leaves are dying off.

After doing some reading I'm wondering if to much growth could be causing this? Not enough root growth to support vegetative growth so it's cannibalizing it's lower leaves to support its growth? This could be spurred on my to much light?

I raised the lights as high as possible today to see if this helps out at all. I've moved them from about 2 feet to about 4 feet. These are very powerful self built Samsung strip LED's. 4 of them in a 10x5x7 with each fixture being equal or stronger than a 500w hps. This has actually been tested side by side with a meter.

Enviroment,
If you're not familiar with Masterblend it's similar to Jack's or sometimes considered better. Stopped spending money on labels and water on and in plastic bottles.
Masterblend 4-18-38 12grams, Calcium Nitrate 12grams; Epsom Salt 6grams 500ppm.
Hydroguard
Four Samsung f564b fixtures.
Eight 5 gallon with res RDWC.
2 inch rockwool in bio-balls.
Water touching bottom of net cup but dropping 2 inches soon.
PH starting at 5.5 let rise to 6.0, rinse repeat but not often. It's been 4 days and ph has only risen by .1.
Temp 75 day 67 night.
Humidity 60% day & night - cool mist humidifier.
Water temp 70 day 65 night.
780cfm exhaust with passive intake.
Fans for moving air and plants.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something but I'm guessing someone will point it out soon enough. Again, the plants are growing super fast I'm just not sure if it's not to fast!

P.s. The smaller the root mass the more pronounced the issue. This makes me think even more that they just can't eat enough to support their growth.
 

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JSB99

JSB99

Well-Known Member
shawnery said:
Plants in the second week of transplant into my RDWC. Clones showed roots after 7 days but just a peek. Next day I cleaned out the system, with h202 and water, and refilled with solution.
Since the day after switching out the solution I've had roughly an inch to an inch and a half every day of stem growth. I've also had a good deal of root growth but not on the same level.
New growth is light green but gets darker as new growth comes in. The bottom larger leaves are dying slowly as new growth comes in. The cycle keeps continuing but as I said the growth over all is fast.
The other strange thing is that the clones are starting to bush out and grow secondary stems as if I topped it. They're really getting quite dense in stem growth even though old leaves are dying off.

After doing some reading I'm wondering if to much growth could be causing this? Not enough root growth to support vegetative growth so it's cannibalizing it's lower leaves to support its growth? This could be spurred on my to much light?

I raised the lights as high as possible today to see if this helps out at all. I've moved them from about 2 feet to about 4 feet. These are very powerful self built Samsung strip LED's. 4 of them in a 10x5x7 with each fixture being equal or stronger than a 500w hps. This has actually been tested side by side with a meter.

Enviroment,
If you're not familiar with Masterblend it's similar to Jack's or sometimes considered better. Stopped spending money on labels and water on and in plastic bottles.
Masterblend 4-18-38 12grams, Calcium Nitrate 12grams; Epsom Salt 6grams 500ppm.
Hydroguard
Four Samsung f564b fixtures.
Eight 5 gallon with res RDWC.
2 inch rockwool in bio-balls.
Water touching bottom of net cup but dropping 2 inches soon.
PH starting at 5.5 let rise to 6.0, rinse repeat but not often. It's been 4 days and ph has only risen by .1.
Temp 75 day 67 night.
Humidity 60% day & night - cool mist humidifier.
Water temp 70 day 65 night.
780cfm exhaust with passive intake.
Fans for moving air and plants.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something but I'm guessing someone will point it out soon enough. Again, the plants are growing super fast I'm just not sure if it's not to fast!

P.s. The smaller the root mass the more pronounced the issue. This makes me think even more that they just can't eat enough to support their growth.
Click to expand...
500ppm is too high for plants that small. Water down what you've got. You should be around 200-250ppm.

Older leaves from cloning will shrivel and die. Keep an eye on the new growth. Looking at your large fans, I can see burning starting at the tips, which is a sign of nutrient levels being too high. Later in the grow, riding the max is okay, but when they're this little, you want to be very gentle with them. They don't have the strength to handle a lot of stress yet.
 
JSB99

JSB99

Well-Known Member
You can trim those bottom, dying leaves, so that your plants aren't wasting energy trying to keep them alive.
 
shawnery

shawnery

Well-Known Member
When I got them they were on 300ppm from the nursery. I started at 300 and moved up 500 over a few days after the roots dropped.

Question,
If the ppm was to high shouldn't the ppm be going up. Everything I've read has stayed ppm's dropping means ppm to low, ppm's staying level means perfect ppm and ppm's rising means ppm to high.

The ppm's are very slowly dropping just a single ppm or two. Wouldn't that point to the ppm's being slightly low of anything?

Second,
Why is the plant growing as if it's been topped when it hasn't been?
 
mmjmon

mmjmon

Well-Known Member
If your ppm's drop, your plant is taking them in...your mix being hot and ppm's low show the plant uptaking too much where the leaves now show over fertilization...
shawnery said:
When I got them they were on 300ppm from the nursery. I started at 300 and moved up 500 over a few days after the roots dropped.

Question,
If the ppm was to high shouldn't the ppm be going up. Everything I've read has stayed ppm's dropping means ppm to low, ppm's staying level means perfect ppm and ppm's rising means ppm to high.

The ppm's are very slowly dropping just a single ppm or two. Wouldn't that point to the ppm's being slightly low of anything?

Second,
Why is the plant growing as if it's been topped when it hasn't been?
Click to expand...
 
Cold$moke

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
I think you just setting your ph too low
Try setting it at 5.8 and let it drift to 6.3 before adjusting :)

Id keep the ppms the same at this point cause any damage that has been done is done the plants will acclimate to it.

I just made clones by feeding them 800 ppm soultion so i KNOW it works lol just not ideal

I have 2 seedlings SEEDLINGS. With 2 sets of leavez sitting in 500ppm


Try your ph first :)
 
shawnery

shawnery

Well-Known Member
The thing that I keep going back to is the lessening of symptoms based on the size of the root mass. Perhaps there is some other factor I'm missing but this is the only obvious one across all plants.
 
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