Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow

kmog33

Well-Known Member
Hell ya, I'm not scared. I am going to resort to maxsea(16-16-16) though...the shit just works. Not totally organic, but that isn't a concern really.
Next run will be full organic with great soil and plenty of it. This round I going to hit them with MOAB towards the end. Honestly dream eats like a fat bitch. But Since I basically only run it outdoors, 60-100gal was never an issue. All the process of dialing in.
My blue dream are the same, fading while my og of the same res is almost nitrogen toxicity green lol. Definitely gluttonous girls.

I usually grow pretty finicky strains, not used to one's that take as much as I give them and still ask for more lol. This is my first time doing blue dream so new experience for sure.

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Mad Hamish

Well-Known Member
Thank you for spending both your time and effort in doing this run. This is pure experimental science and the knowledge you are bringing to the table is of incalculable value.

I personally feel LED will remain a niche market and never take over from HID completely. They are the stealth grower's best friend and if going stealth no other option makes sense, and they have brought cabinet grows up to a quality we never saw 5 years ago.

Once again, thanks for this. You just saved me a few k...
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Nice video. Colas are looking good on both sides. The led side colas are more sexy though lol. At the end. You should keep the hps hash separate from the led hash. Compare trichome quality / yield as well.

You pretty much have a grasp on rols. We pull the stalk. Then topdress with castings , compost. Water the pots with teas . Over the span of a few weeks the roots break down and microbes feed on the dead roots. After that the roots or gone. Then plant the next plant. Topdress with nutes thenn again with castings /compost and water.

Even dumping it out into a pile, you don't have to separate the roots. They will still break down if amended with castings/ compost and watered with teas while cooking. See I just saved you 4 hours of sweaty labor.... You're welcome..

with my new mix 50/50 coco / soil I'm wondering the same thing about the longevity of the coco. I've been doing rols. But I love the growth with the 50/50 mix. This last batch. Rols pots are being dumped and mixed with new soil. 2 year old rols pots.....
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
did you cut off or let die , the roots that grew out of the bottom of the pot? I just moved everything into the flower room. Roots are hanging 6-12 inches out the bottom of half the plants. The 50/50 mix makea roots grow like crazy.
 

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
great update homie! had to take note on this one!!!!


ok so everything i will be saying, is what i learned through out the years of taking sustainable agriculture and reading books such as teaming with microbes soul of the soil, and much much more academic readings. PLUS hands on practice!

since i took notes ill be posting them with points.

1. yes rols is prettty much cutting the base off and leaving roots to decompose just like hyroot stated. roots are essential to a ecosystem because they help keep the soil in place, roots also make little highways for beneficial creature like worms or nematodes, and most important roots become food for the micro beasties.

2. coco/peat mix will last you years! i know because im doing it! within the ROLS community, it seems like 50/50 is best. some use only peat, some use only coco. i use both. however when it comes down to sustainability, sadly peat is being mined intensively in Canada, and destroying ecosystems that take thousands of years to develop, and coco is also becoming a problem because of by product waste such as shells, also coco is connected to bad work labor ethics. having said all that, its all the more reason to use coco/peat for as LONG AS possible.

3. i feel u on the space issue, i believe this is one of the main reasons people dont like ROLS. i say its all the more reason to do ROLS, think about it, in rols, u mix a batch and bam, never leaves the place until ur ready to move! if your constantly buying new soil, or bottle nutes, its really giving red flags to neighbors, and lets not forget where these bottles or "used" soil goes. sure u can argue it goes to the waste lands and gets composted, i would counter that argument with, STOP SUPPORTING CAPITALIST HYDRO COMPANIES. lol

4. subcool once said "i dont re use super soil because it gets "depleted"" this is both true and false, if a soil is packed with NPKS, the plant then only knows to eat NPKS, and therefore it then becomes sort of a "hydroponic way of growing/thinking"" ( i use this term alot) in ROLS or sustainability, soil DOES NOT get depleted, it only GETS BETTER. proof? LOOK AT OLD GROWTH FOREST/JUNGLES and my garden!|

5. Hydroponic way of thinking is using words or terms like "add more" 'need more P for flowering", or "more N for veg", once again this is false, the plant is more then just NPKS, much much more. AS A MATTER OF FACT, in ROLS its not about NPKs or growing a plant, ITS ABOUT GROWING SOIL, all the npks that are added in rols, become food for fungi/microbes/bugs etc etc which then turn into food for the plants. all this info is backed by science by the way, NOT MAKING IT UP! lol

6. bat guano, dont get me started....... wars have been fought over bat guano, people have died over bat guanos, (google it) this is because of simple capitalism, guano are no different then any other world resource, EXPLOITED.
to add more to the problem of guanos, they are mined, once mined, the ecology of the caves starts to deteriorate.the guanos are deposited in the cave and it becomes a ecology for insects, microbes and other animals. last i checked, more then half of the bat caves that have been mined ARE GONE. (google it)
and no i do not use guanos in my mix, i have been using my mix for over two years, and i dont get "Phosphorus deficiencies" (false hydroponic way of thinking) my buds come out consistent and chunky every run.


7. i promise last point and ill shut up.
in ROLS its about a good stable base mix. 33% peat/coco 33%pumice/perlite/rice hulls 33% wormcasting/compost and a good lime mix which consist of calcium rich oyster/dolmite/crab/eggs shell.
everything else is just extra really, i do add kelp, alfafa, crab meal, fish meal neem seed. and a couple others.
and of course MY SECRET WEAPON. BIM OR beneficial INDIGENOUS micro organisms https://www.rollitup.org/t/beneficial-indigenous-micro-organisms-or-bim.762400/page-2
in rols we focus on good enzyme teas/ worm teas and botanical, aloe vera juice and coconut water. all these teas either help break down the NPKS into food, or help rejuvenate the microbes/fungi etc etc.
we also focus on IPM integrated pest management, which consist of natural organic techniques, and we also focus of good quality foilar sprays.
and lets not forget the backbone of ROLS. a good quality compost bin/worm bin, this is where your NPKS will be forming, for example, u want a stronger calcium dose? add oyster shell to the worm bin, worms will eat it and poop calcium rich poops, same goes with other NPKS(this is call vermiculture. worm poop goes into soil and the cycle goes on and on. same with compost

all info you need on rols is here,
https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/
just like the led community, the organic rols community is very informative and dont fuck around!

much love!!! keep it sustainable!! keep it LOCAL!!
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
I have been through the rols thread.
I like what I have been doing. Same concept of keeping the soil alive. For me I like to mix it up...the leaving it together is what I really don't like about rols. I take the stalk/main root ball out but still there are plenty of roots to break down in the pile.
I also think it will give a more even result. As opposed to each container being a little different.
Justs my thoughts on rols....but organic and sustainable I subscribe to.

In certain situations actual sustainability isn't really an option, but organics is totally possible. That is where sourced guanos and organic matter come in. Definitely not perfect in the process of obtaining, but the product that will be produced with the non sustainable source will be organic and great.
In a world where people had space, animals,...and lived off the land...no super markets or processed food...like the 1800's....we would have all the means to make renewable and the highest quality soil that continues to grow and build all on it's own because the environment(farm/ranch/homestead) would be favorable and supply all the means on site.

Sonoma county is right there with humbolt/mendo...just with out the stigma of being from there/the emerald triangle. They just all think we are wine-o-holics. Where grapes grow the herb grows too. Better conditions then farther north too...growing climate and legalities. I am a canna grower but have a couple grape vines that I love growing and shaping. I know a few vineyard owners that grow more herb than grapes it seems like.
Same fertile redwood forest surround us too. I love this place.
 

kmog33

Well-Known Member
I mix my use indoor soil into new soil and ground soil for my outdoor if that counts :)

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Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
did you cut off or let die , the roots that grew out of the bottom of the pot? I just moved everything into the flower room. Roots are hanging 6-12 inches out the bottom of half the plants. The 50/50 mix makea roots grow like crazy.
I'm loving the coco too.
For the roots...they eventually just air prune themselves. During veg, conditions tend to allow the roots to survive outside the pots longer. Once in the flower room/mode there isn't enough water around all the time for them to stay long.
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
I got hooked up today from medicinal organics. We always see each other and swap buds and shoot the shit at the local clubs harvest market. I stopped by today even though I wasn't vending anything. He had a new strain, Blue Frost... (blueberry diesel x platinum cookies). He tossed me a pack. He was impressed with the BBK I gave him. "really...LED's?". Love that reaction.
IMG_3237.jpg IMG_3238.jpg


And I also have some beans already sprouted...left is (thin mint x jillybean) right is apha blue(blue dream x sourD)...and as you can see, some veggies going too.
IMG_3236.jpg
 
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Cococola36

Well-Known Member
I got hooked up today from medicinal organics. We always see each other and swap buds and shoot the shit at the local clubs harvest market. I stopped by today even though I wasn't vending anything. He had a new strain, Blue Frost... (blueberry diesel x platinum cookies). He tossed me a pack. He was impressed with the BBK I gave him. "really...LED's?". Love that reaction.
View attachment 3132773 View attachment 3132774


And I also have some beans already sprouted...left is (thin mint x jillybean) right is apha blue(blue dream x sourD)...and as you can see, some veggies going too.
View attachment 3132776
Damnnnn you west coast bastards (if thats where your from lmao) I would love some sexy strains like that
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Damnnnn you west coast bastards (if thats where your from lmao) I would love some sexy strains like that
Norcal baby!!!
The strains that run around here are good. But they get old quick and a lot of people grow the same thing. So finding something top shelf but only yours is key.
When I first moved up here I had a super distinct pheno of bubba that everyone wanted. Haven't had a go to strain like that in a few years now.
 

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Your BD ladies are looking awesome! I am in a similar boat regarding ROLS. I reuse my soil and some of it is 5 years old. I do agree it gets better with time. Its not always water only, I water in ferts when needed, but only organic blackstrap and organic fish hydrolysate. Lots of EWC/blackstrap/fish/kelp tea (microbial recipe) tea.

But when recycling I don't just leave it in the bucket to cook. When I reamend I pull the big roots out and compost them separately (takes much longer to break down). I put 50L used soil in HUGE heavy duty garbage bags, add microbial tea, organic chicken manure, fresh organic EWC, organic compost, kelp, alfalfa, guano, azomite, rock dust, greensand, eggshell etc and mix it thoroughly by sloshing the bag around for a minute or 2, great exercise. Then it sits and cooks for a few months before going back into service. The ladies absolutely love it and I can never seem to make enough EWC/compost. The more the merrier.

Mixing every time is a lot more work than just leaving it in the bucket but I havent made that leap yet. Maybe I will try it on just one bucket. I might also like to try the fabric pots they seem to be working great for you. Does it make a mess when watering?
 

Cococola36

Well-Known Member
Norcal baby!!!
The strains that run around here are good. But they get old quick and a lot of people grow the same thing. So finding something top shelf but only yours is key.
When I first moved up here I had a super distinct pheno of bubba that everyone wanted. Haven't had a go to strain like that in a few years now.
Ahhhhh , some day I will make my way to the west coast....hopefully before any fault lines start moving hahaha jk jk...but might go in september just reconnected with an estranged brother who lives in Germany (army baby) and hes visiting cali then so i want to go.

Back to the strain topic, I hear you because I popped my "mystery" strain I have on total accident, its superb to say the least people go nuts for it and the sad thing is since I got sent the wrong seed I have noooo clue what it is lmao. Its just def an indica, short stout strong in appearance, frosty as a disco ball, tendency to go purp, and yields awesome also tested at 20.9 % thc...smells a bit like coffee beans and licorice is the best way to describe it. ( Searching for possible bud extraordinaires to help me here!) With all that description, I bought "super lemon haze" lol I don't effin think so lol
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Ahhhhh , some day I will make my way to the west coast....hopefully before any fault lines start moving hahaha jk jk...but might go in september just reconnected with an estranged brother who lives in Germany (army baby) and hes visiting cali then so i want to go.

Back to the strain topic, I hear you because I popped my "mystery" strain I have on total accident, its superb to say the least people go nuts for it and the sad thing is since I got sent the wrong seed I have noooo clue what it is lmao. Its just def an indica, short stout strong in appearance, frosty as a disco ball, tendency to go purp, and yields awesome also tested at 20.9 % thc...smells a bit like coffee beans and licorice is the best way to describe it. ( Searching for possible bud extraordinaires to help me here!) With all that description, I bought "super lemon haze" lol I don't effin think so lol

That reminds me exactly of Soma's lavender..........purple buds which had a distinct licorice smell/taste IMO, if I remember correctly. Great strain anyways http://somaseeds.nl/products-page/lavender/

didn't grow it, but was a memorable smoke and looked fantastic back in the day......
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Coco in my opinion (from what i have read) sounds like you got some afghani kinda strain so look in that gene pool. Had some la affie that smelled like it was smuggled in some coffee beans for months but was just the taste of the strain. Problem with my opinion is unlike you guys with med/rec when i get told lineage i have to take their word for it so I do not believe every name i hear but this shit was to fire not to be on that level

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foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Lol recs dont mean we will be told what the strain really is. Most if not all dispensaries lie on weed names. Seed banks can be a diffrent story.

Canna i agree with psu, although that is a long shot. From previous strain knowledge, most short purple plants can be from aghan heritage, espeically strains from the kush region where it gets colder and can maybe cause purple in genetics. Can also be a freak mix, which means u will never really kno.
You got yourself a keeper tho, and bcuz of that u can name it whatever u want :)
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Ahhhhh , some day I will make my way to the west coast....hopefully before any fault lines start moving hahaha jk jk...but might go in september just reconnected with an estranged brother who lives in Germany (army baby) and hes visiting cali then so i want to go.

Back to the strain topic, I hear you because I popped my "mystery" strain I have on total accident, its superb to say the least people go nuts for it and the sad thing is since I got sent the wrong seed I have noooo clue what it is lmao. Its just def an indica, short stout strong in appearance, frosty as a disco ball, tendency to go purp, and yields awesome also tested at 20.9 % thc...smells a bit like coffee beans and licorice is the best way to describe it. ( Searching for possible bud extraordinaires to help me here!) With all that description, I bought "super lemon haze" lol I don't effin think so lol
Definitely sounds like an afghani line or hindu. Coffee is a common hash plant trait.
Sounds like what ever it is it's a super winner.
 

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
That Blue Frost sounds like it will be great. One of the clubs where I sometimes get my clones from just started carrying Medicine Man Seeds. I was wondering how they are. Look forward to seeing those ones grow out. Your girls are looking great as usual.
 
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