Anthocyanins purple stems

2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
Ive heard all that mumbo jumbo about purple genetics and stems but then i read a lot of intresting articles on the use of anthocyanins in osmoregulation (one a stoner myth the other a factual study).

Multiple experiments show anthocyanins (purple) to be linked to stress, trees do not show their autumn colours till significant stressors have occured (wind, rain, low humidity, snow) and is not wholey temperature dependant.

Anthocyanins out compete chlorophyl thus a stressed leaf can photosynthsise less.

Anthocyanins accumulate in cold conditions due to slowed transport systems and sugar accumulation.

Seems a bit weird to give the answer to 'Why is my plant purple' as 'purple genetics' or 'dont worry it will grow out of it' and those who promote it when the obvious answer is stress i.e. too much air circulation, low humidity, low temps etc etc basically anything similar seems to cause its production, theoretically it acts as sunscreen to bright light lessening the light absorbed by chlorophyl and resulting damage.

Why make it such a mystery when it is clearly an environmental problem i.e. adjust the fan or temps or humidity etc etc?!
 
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Because you are assuming that on a broad scale that has to include genetics as an answer.....There are strains that run purple or are predisposed to......Differing factors can bring that trait out.....Not all Cannabis plants will "purple from stress".....You could increase K to induce coloring and temps do contribute AND in the cold it is a form of stress for plants.....

But to say that all purple color expression is stress,,,,is wrong!

Doc
 
2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
No sorry there are no strains predispositioned to show purple under healthy conditions only stress brings it out. The strains you and most harp on about are predispositioned to show less resistance to stress hence their autumn colours show through more at the end of flowering (temperature being one of them). Most growers cite that running a purple strain cooler at flower end will induce more purple colours.

Id like to call you out on these myths and question the knowledge mj sites generalise about anthocyanins based on scientific fact, studies and the manipulation for food colour

Again i can only talk in terms like 'osmoregulation' and 'carbohydrates' not myh talk with nothing to base it on.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
I stand by my call on purple stains......I know of several that purple on their own from genetics and not from stress.....Hell son, you can see stress and @Cobnobuler has a strain that express's color by genetics and his pics of, show NO plant stress....Killing fields by sannies - post us a good one please cob!

Look up Blue magoo....I have been after that for years now (pure cutting , original from the NW) as I was visiting a relative who brought me to a commercial grow and 20% of that area was covered with actual purple plants - no stressing! (They would not part with a cutting for me).......

I have a pheno of the REAL ghost cut OG and that gets purple by it's self - no stress showing......I just can't agree with your theory or position on that.....
Now then, in these genetic color expressing plants, It is anthocyanins that are at play in larger quantities in the plant....But it is by selctive breeding that we have plants that now express "purple" in normal conditions by increased natural levels of anthocyanins in that selective breed plant.

Sensi seeds says this.
"For many years, the only purple varieties of cannabis were those that had been grown outdoors and subjected to cold conditions. Many strains of cannabis purple to some extent when exposed to cold; now, selective breeding programs have yielded cannabis genetics that are purple even in normal environmental conditions."

Here is the link to the whole thing:
http://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/what-makes-cannabis-purple/

Back in 03 there was Blackberry that even expressed it's purple color in the trichomes......This plant is an example of genetic coloring at natural conditions.......

You can express coloring by the use of extra K in late bloom another thing you can add to the list of raising "ants"........But it's still not real stress to the plant in my book.....

I agree that the vast majority of plants that have the trait, grows green if not expressed with out some manipulation by the grower.
I must say that there ARE strains that do it from selective breeding programs to do it...

Doc
 
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BDOGKush

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
Anthocyanins are not purely a result of stress. Plenty of plants have naturally high levels of Anthocyanins and express color variations as a way to attract pollinators and other animals.
 
testiclees

testiclees

Well-Known Member
Purple flowers is a different situation than purple petioles. I notice that purple petioles are far more common under led than sunlight. In summer i veg outdoors then bring the ladies in for flowering. Nearly all of em get a degree of purpled petioles. I used to sweat it, try to address it but i didnt have much success and it had little effect on ontcomes. If you look around various cannabis sites at plants or nugs of the month (prize winners) you will see plenty of purple petioles. It might be an expression of stress but it doesnt have much effect on harvest quality.
 
2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
Lets be objective then -

In 1999 Linda Chalker Scott concluded that photoreception influenced anthocyanin production, later experiments in light sensitive seedlings confirm this.

I cite all studies from Linda above to et.al and a 100 more that fly in your face, i dont think your responses are based on any hard fact and i too can make my plant go purple and take pretty pictures, shame it has no purple genetics!

Cite-

http://science.report/author/l-chalker-scott/

This link should take you to the full text on a Linda Chalker, et.al and a few more studies

Studies show that stressor genes are interelated to anthocyanin production, even a genetic purple flower will show more anthocyanin production in higher light conditions.

Anyone who reads the text on anthocyanin studies in relation to photoreception and osmoregulation would not be flipantly adressing anthocyanin like you but give it carefull consideration.
 
2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
BDOGKush said:
Anthocyanins are not purely a result of stress. Plenty of plants have naturally high levels of Anthocyanins and express color variations as a way to attract pollinators and other animals.
Click to expand...
Bullshit, plants predispositioned to produce anthocyanin are more purple the more stress they get

http://m.jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/04/20/jxb.erp097.full#ref-8

I cite this study on oxford-journals that detail purple petunias!

Really your just mixing up the situation...
 
2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
Ive cited my debate, read the links, sensi's web info is based on my cited anthocyanin experiments and even sensi state the colour purple is not meant to be there till the last few weeks (do you even read your links) and hence correlates with the studies ive cited on stressor genetics. Chlorophyl destruction i think sensi term it but you can correct me when you re read your own link and then realise what im debating!

Dr. Who said:
I stand by my call on purple stains......I know of several that purple on their own from genetics and not from stress.....Hell son, you can see stress and @Cobnobuler has a strain that express's color by genetics and his pics of, show NO plant stress....Killing fields by sannies - post us a good one please cob!

Look up Blue magoo....I have been after that for years now (pure cutting , original from the NW) as I was visiting a relative who brought me to a commercial grow and 20% of that area was covered with actual purple plants - no stressing! (They would not part with a cutting for me).......

I have a pheno of the REAL ghost cut OG and that gets purple by it's self - no stress showing......I just can't agree with your theory or position on that.....
Now then, in these genetic color expressing plants, It is anthocyanins that are at play in larger quantities in the plant....But it is by selctive breeding that we have plants that now express "purple" in normal conditions by increased natural levels of anthocyanins in that selective breed plant.

Sensi seeds says this.
"For many years, the only purple varieties of cannabis were those that had been grown outdoors and subjected to cold conditions. Many strains of cannabis purple to some extent when exposed to cold; now, selective breeding programs have yielded cannabis genetics that are purple even in normal environmental conditions."

Here is the link to the whole thing:
http://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/what-makes-cannabis-purple/

Back in 03 there was Blackberry that even expressed it's purple color in the trichomes......This plant is an example of genetic coloring at natural conditions.......

You can express coloring by the use of extra K in late bloom another thing you can add to the list of raising "ants"........But it's still not real stress to the plant in my book.....

I agree that the vast majority of plants that have the trait, grows green if not expressed with out some manipulation by the grower.
I must say that there ARE strains that do it from selective breeding programs to do it...

Doc
Click to expand...
 
Gary Goodson

Gary Goodson

Well-Known Member
This thread is going nowhere. I could explain to you all about thermodynamics and what types of metals are better for retaining heat and which ones are better at dissipating heat, but at the end of the day none of that will help you fry an egg. My point is, a cook doesn't need to know all that to make a great meal. Same with what you're talking about. It's not going to teach anyone anything. It won't help your phosphorus confusion or help you germinate a seedling in rockwool or figure out your four year long debacle or anything else really.

Pointless thread and major fail as well

You just want to talk all scientific like you know some shit, but the reality is you can't grow some shit
image.jpg

Go figure out your growing situation and then come back and try to school people. Because right now, I'm just not feeling you as a teacher bruh
 
BDOGKush

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
2Hearts said:
Bullshit, plants predispositioned to produce anthocyanin are more purple the more stress they get

http://m.jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/04/20/jxb.erp097.full#ref-8

I cite this study on oxford-journals that detail purple petunias!

Really your just mixing up the situation...
Click to expand...
It's bullshit that plants produce anthocyanin to attract animals and pollinators? lol

http://www.els.net/WileyCDA/ElsArticle/refId-a0001909.html

Key Concepts:


  • Anthocyanins provide the majority of red to blue colours of plants.

  • Anthocyanins in plants attract or repel pollinators and seed dispersers, and serve protective and defensive roles.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Yes I read them...the point is that they do it on their own....

Nice debate! Good research....

Things in 1999 are getting old per new strains breed..
 
BDOGKush

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
2Hearts said:
Bullshit, plants predispositioned to produce anthocyanin are more purple the more stress they get

http://m.jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/04/20/jxb.erp097.full#ref-8

I cite this study on oxford-journals that detail purple petunias!

Really your just mixing up the situation...
Click to expand...
Your own source disproves your theory that Anthocyanins are purely from stress; right in the introduction.

"Anthocyanin may be developmentally transient, appearing only in juvenile or senescing tissues, or they may be permanent. Likewise, they may be environmentally transient, appearing and disappearing with changes in photoperiod, temperature or other signals."
 
Ace Yonder

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
While anthocyanins are indeed brought out, in many plants, by stress and/or various stimuli (e.g. colder weather triggering autumn leaf color), that's just one way they are expressed. There are also plenty of examples of anthocyanins occurring naturally without being caused by external stimuli, such as in naturally purple flowers (some chyrsanthemums or pansies for instance) and most blue/purple fruits like blueberries and blackberries, and plants can be bred to naturally express them such as with Blue tomatoes, which grow blue due to being bred to naturally express hgher levels of anthocyanins, not because they are subjected to any type of stress. Some plants have a genetic predisposition to express anthocyanins when exposed to stimuli such as stress or the changing of the seasons, and some plants have a predisposition to express anthocyanins regardless of stimuli. They serve many purposes (attracting pollinators, protecting the plant from intense light, repelling predators that would normally be attracted to green, etc.) and as with most things that serve multiple purposes they arise in multiple ways. As with all organisms, finding a cannabis plant that expresses anthocyanins naturally rather than as a response to stimuli is as simple as waiting for a plant to express that trait because of a mutation and then breeding it until you have isolated the responsible alleles and can reliably breed plants to express that trait.
 
2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Yes I read them...the point is that they do it on their own....

Nice debate! Good research....

Things in 1999 are getting old per new strains breed..
Click to expand...
1999 was the start of when people really started to conclude anthocyanin studies...

modern studies are way more indepth and speculate where stress might cause buildups/chlorophyl destruction i.e. Places of little chlorophyl or stems and petiols.

Wine growers actively manipulate anthocyanin production through drought, i mean its not hard to point out this stuff its just that one someone asks the question about purple stems etc they are just given your one sided answer and that perpetuates these purple myths.
 
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