An outlaw's journal

Alaric said:

(aren't you about ready to harvest?)

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I wish... got about 6-7 weeks to go, then some more 2-3weeks later. Still got some small stuff in jars but it won't last for 6 weeks. I finished a seed run with a very low yielding sativa little over a month ago, so not a whole lot of smokeable bud from that. That, and growing on soil hasn't helped keeping my jars filled either... Current run is last soil run, ever.

Looking forward to the rest of your journey and hope things will get easier for you.

Hey Alaric, great read

I've been all over the map concerning hydro systems. Started dwc, then rdwc... A bit of DTW while i constructed my low pressure aeroponics system (more of an NFT like yours, but with 4x 27 gal tubs and sprayers) but leaks and sprayer positioning problems lead me back to DWC here for a while.

Your systems seems like my next logical step. I've been thinking for some time now about possible problems/ challenges i'll need to circumvent. Any (more) tips for someone attempting a similar build?

Also if i understand, the rails have an inch or so of moving water in them at all times? Do you run any sterilizing/beneficials for the roots?

And how is the stem held in place now that you've done away with netpots?

Thanks man! Awesome thread.

SnaFuu said:

Hey Alaric, great read

I've been all over the map concerning hydro systems. Started dwc, then rdwc... A bit of DTW while i constructed my low pressure aeroponics system (more of an NFT like yours, but with 4x 27 gal tubs and sprayers) but leaks and sprayer positioning problems lead me back to DWC here for a while.

Your systems seems like my next logical step. I've been thinking for some time now about possible problems/ challenges i'll need to circumvent. Any (more) tips for someone attempting a similar build?

Also if i understand, the rails have an inch or so of moving water in them at all times? Do you run any sterilizing/beneficials for the roots?

And how is the stem held in place now that you've done away with netpots?

Thanks man! Awesome thread.

Click to expand...

Hey SnaFuu----thx,

Happy to answer any question I can-----but first I have one---what's DTW?

I hate those damn leaks---I may have a few tricks coming up for that.

What problems / challenges are you concerned about?

What version of "similar build" are you referring to ----flat canopy or hanging tubes?

Yes about the nute flow level but I would say around 2"-----of course the level at the high end of the tube will be less than the lower end and in constant circulation in the last configuration.

NO----never have run any sterilization or beneficials.

The plant is held up by tying it to the trellis, double sided velcro works great (In some of those pics----the 3/4" pvc pipe attached to the top of the tube.

(and thanks for double spacing you remarks----much easier for my old eyes to read)

A~~~

Alaric said:

Hey SnaFuu----thx,

Happy to answer any question I can-----but first I have one---what's DTW?

I hate those damn leaks---I may have a few tricks coming up for that.

What problems / challenges are you concerned about?

What version of "similar build" are you referring to ----flat canopy or hanging tubes?

Yes about the nute flow level but I would say around 2"-----of course the level at the high end of the tube will be less than the lower end and in constant circulation in the last configuration.

NO----never have run any sterilization or beneficials.

The plant is held up by tying it to the trellis, double sided velcro works great (In some of those pics----the 3/4" pvc pipe attached to the top of the tube.

(and thanks for double spacing you remarks----much easier for my old eyes to read)

A~~~

Click to expand...

Hey

So DTW stands for drain to waste. It's my go-to system for summer. Use a full inert medium like perlite or hydroton, attach a drip ring to a pump on a timer, automatically water from a rez every so often. Run-off goes down the drain. Great for avoiding root rot in the summer. Very wasteful, and I'm not a fan of using (paying for) medium.

So yeah, my leaks came from poor attempts at water proofing drain and feed line holes I cut, fed and epoxied in place. Fine for one run, a little leaky next, third run was cut short and salvaged by placing in DWC. heh. System was a fail for a few more reasons.. Learned a lot.. Back to the drawing board. Won't be getting 'fancy' like that again, stick with uniseals and bulkheads.

I am absolutely interested in your hanging tubes. Your root pics are beautiful. Perhaps some unintended air flow over the roots somehow was responsible for the one magnificent oddity?? Just a thought.. A friend's aeroponic system was unintentionally benefited by the negative pressure of the room pulling cool air over all the roots and up through the netpots into the room. Basically the air from his passive intake for the room first had to travel through his buckets, passing the roots constantly. This was quite unintentional, but has been in the back of my mind for some time now.

I now understand how the plants are held in by the velcro and 3/4 pvc. Very innovative way of providing support and still being able to get right in to the rails for cleaning. I like the T used as well for possible trellis addition. Has this come in handy or was the one trellis enough?

Also I am astounded you don't run beneficials or sterilizing. I wouldn't have thought enough oxygen would be getting to the roots if they were constantly wet. I notice no chiller, no insulation on the rails, no talk of water temperature and yet beautiful roots. Next you'll tell me you don't aerate your rez

I need to know your secrets! haha!

@SnaFuu this is exactly the kind of unintentional yet beneficial side effect that I've been hunting for years...

And I'm willing to bet the res isn't oxygenated, either!

Drain to waste---I feel dumb now.

Oh yes, the multiple levels of trellis really come in handy.

If you go with the hanging tubes (my favorite ) the chains provide natural attachment points for the trellis bar (if that makes sense?)

Just attach the trellis pipe to the chains at both ends (I used S hooks).

Constant circulation keeps the nutes oxygenated.

I'm convinced its only necessary to just keep nutes cool and moving.

Hey tty----the rez is oxygenated by nutes constantly flowing back into it (the rez).

I never liked unseals but love bulkheads.

As far as nute temps----mid 70s-----not my first choice but something my girls and I could live with.

I don't have any "secrets"-----always happy to help.

A~~~

Time to take a little detour over to a friend's garage:

Single car garage around 12'w x 24' long with a 13' ceiling. He insisted he only wanted to use half the length giving us a 12' x12' x13' space.

With the low profile tube design we made a two level setup-----flower area stacked on top of the veg section.

Soooooo, we ran 2x4s from floor to ceiling at each corner and set the flowering height at 8' (leaving 5' height for veg).



Crappy pitcures I know but hopefully the idea. I had some material I had zippers sewed in.

You can kinda see the veg area below with the flower area between cycles.
This is how the veg area looked-----I thought he did pretty well considering no experience.

Shot of the maidens.


Pretty good for the first run (48 zips from two x 1K hps)

This is another case of-----as far as I know----first ever mention of a tent (back then).

A~~~

Alaric said:

Drain to waste---I feel dumb now.

Oh yes, the multiple levels of trellis really come in handy.

If you go with the hanging tubes (my favorite ) the chains provide natural attachment points for the trellis bar (if that makes sense?)

Just attach the trellis pipe to the chains at both ends (I used S hooks).

Constant circulation keeps the nutes oxygenated.

I'm convinced its only necessary to just keep nutes cool and moving.

Hey tty----the rez is oxygenated by nutes constantly flowing back into it (the rez).

I never liked unseals but love bulkheads.

As far as nute temps----mid 70s-----not my first choice but something my girls and I could live with.

I don't have any "secrets"-----always happy to help.

A~~~

Click to expand...

This is all great information Alaric, I appreciate it. I sometimes wish I had been documenting my last few years of experience ranging from total failures to persevered successes like you seem to have. Must feel nice cracking open an old floppy disc and reminiscing. I don't have the guts and anyways... I don't even know where I'd stick a floppy in my laptop! haha

Good use of the space in your friend's garage. (though I can hear @ttystikk yelling "13' ceilings??? vert trees! vert trees!) Glad to know the bit of heat created by the veg lamp still wasn't enough to warm your flowering roots too far. I need to get on a system like this!

ttystikk said:

@SnaFuu this is exactly the kind of unintentional yet beneficial side effect that I've been hunting for years...

And I'm willing to bet the res isn't oxygenated, either!

Click to expand...

Hi ttystikk

It's a very intriguing idea indeed. Just put your roots in-between your passive intake and the air it's replacing. Makes great sense for aero, perhaps NFT as well. Now that I think about it, even a DWC should benefit a bit through the swamp cooling effect the evaporation would have. You're putting that moisture in the air now, but in this scenario (and in my case) you'd be exhausting anyway. Hmmmmmmmmm perhaps circumstance is the father of invention.

SnaFuu said:

This is all great information Alaric, I appreciate it. I sometimes wish I had been documenting my last few years of experience ranging from total failures to persevered successes like you seem to have. Must feel nice cracking open an old floppy disc and reminiscing. I don't have the guts and anyways... I don't even know where I'd stick a floppy in my laptop! haha

Good use of the space in your friend's garage. (though I can hear @ttystikk yelling "13' ceilings??? vert trees! vert trees!) Glad to know the bit of heat created by the veg lamp still wasn't enough to warm your flowering roots too far. I need to get on a system like this!



Hi ttystikk

It's a very intriguing idea indeed. Just put your roots in-between your passive intake and the air it's replacing. Makes great sense for aero, perhaps NFT as well. Now that I think about it, even a DWC should benefit a bit through the swamp cooling effect the evaporation would have. You're putting that moisture in the air now, but in this scenario (and in my case) you'd be exhausting anyway. Hmmmmmmmmm perhaps circumstance is the father of invention.

Click to expand...

That would be 'happenstance' and if it was good enough for Pasteur, then it's good enough for me... and one of the weirdest things about my setup is that the water in the reservoir of my ebb n flood tables is often as cool as the water in my RDWC, without any active cooling at all! It's in the slipstream of a box fan ventilating the space so I know there's evaporative and convective cooling going on.

Water would have to flow continually or the airflow would dry the roots and kill then. That airflow would definitely help cool the water, just like having continually flowing water helps oxygenate the reservoir. If it was done with some care, I wonder if this effect could actually be used to chill the RDWC system, with no chiller involved at all?

Vert trees in a 13' tall space? I'd suggest a second floor before advocating dozen footers indoors!

SnaFuu said:

I don't even know where I'd stick a floppy in my laptop! haha

Click to expand...

When I decided to travel back through time----I had to buy USB zip and floppy drives.

I only wish I'd had the courage to document some of the disasters I went through.

The next location will be about the pic in my avatar.

A~~~

I totally had a weird thought about using the root zone as a source of climate control. I dunno, it's pretty far out there...

Great stuff. Did you ever convert to sprayers or just stick with the 1/8" drill holes?

klx said:

Great stuff. Did you ever convert to sprayers or just stick with the 1/8" drill holes?

Click to expand...

Yes, I converted to sprayers------pics coming up.

I was out on bond for about 18 months before I went to trial with my 15k paid lawyer.

I was offered a plea deal of 25-30 months in state prison (same as the MMS for having over 10 lbs.)

On the last morning of my 3 day trial I walked out of my grow rooms at drove to the court house.

Guilty-----said the jury and was sentenced to 25-30 months. 25 months if I'm a good boy and stay out trouble----longer if bad.

This minimum custody camp I was sent to was nothing I'd ever seen on tv or movies-----more like a 4H camp with fences (no razor wire)----and they couldn't shoot you even if trying to escape.

I was really surprised how many of the guards were women ----some almost female.

I got out after 25 months of lots of reading and thinking about how I would configure another garage grow-----if I ever got another chance.

Location #6 coming up.

A~~~

In 07 I got the chance.


A 22' x 22' garage. Took down the upper rails for the doors and screwed them shut.

Put two 15K air conditioners in that window in the back (one for flower the other for veg).

Framed up the walls and insulated with R19 and set the false ceiling at 9' and insulated with R30.

Added water and drain for a utility sink (set up like a washing machine).

Put up a wall (with door) between the veg and flower and ran #6 from the house main panel to this sub panel


I wanted to still have these tubes with panels but a better way of attaching them to the tubes.
This is what I came up with to attach the panels to the tubes (only have to do once).

Used small aluminum Ls and stainless steel self drilling screws-----not fun to do but works great.

Those brown things holding the spray line are 1/2" vine clips I found at the hydro store.

Those vine clips are held in place with nylon screws ----screwed into the tube wall.

Later,

A~~~

That grey hose barb is 1" ID that had to be shaved down a little so the tube I used (hate it) would slide on easy----then clamped.
Tapped a 1" hole for that fitting.

The other fitting is for the supply line going to the spray line------used a 3/4" tap.


End view-----notice the supply line in front of the drain-----helps prevent roots getting in drain (rarely happened).
Here we go with the manifold:

Notice the valves for all the supply and drain lines -----made my life easier several times.

I used a 100 gallon Rubbermade livestock tank for my rez ( filled with 70 gallons max)----great product-----very strong and easy to work with.

If you notice how the drain goes back into the rez----that sets the minimum height of the tubes from the floor.

To drain the nutes I attach a water hose to the top position on the pump manifold and turn the valve on (I love quick connects).

The pump is a 3/4 hp high head pressure version that is on of 15 seconds and off 15 minutes. The reason for this timing is power draw (~1000 watts) and it gives the nutes more time to be cooled with the chiller (1/4 hp).

The same pump supplies both the veg and flower tubes----if you look closely there is a 2" pvc pipe coming through the wall and into the rez----coming from flower room.

Another trick that I really liked----When the nutes are being flushed down that washing machine drain pipe---I remove a filter in the rez and attach a hose that acts like a vacum to get all the "stuff" out of the rez.

Alaric said:

View attachment 3501305

That grey hose barb is 1" ID that had to be shaved down a little so the tube I used (hate it) would slide on easy----then clamped.
Tapped a 1" hole for that fitting.

The other fitting is for the supply line going to the spray line------used a 3/4" tap.
View attachment 3501316

End view-----notice the supply line in front of the drain-----helps prevent roots getting in drain (rarely happened).View attachment 3501321
Here we go with the manifold:

Notice the valves for all the supply and drain lines -----made my life easier several times.View attachment 3501329

I used a 100 gallon Rubbermade livestock tank for my rez ( filled with 70 gallons max)----great product-----very strong and easy to work with.

If you notice how the drain goes back into the rez----that sets the minimum height of the tubes from the floor.

To drain the nutes I attach a water hose to the top position on the pump manifold and turn the valve on (I love quick connects).

The pump is a 3/4 hp high head pressure version that is on of 15 seconds and off 15 minutes. The reason for this timing is power draw (~1000 watts) and it gives the nutes more time to be cooled with the chiller (1/4 hp).

The same pump supplies both the veg and flower tubes----if you look closely there is a 2" pvc pipe coming through the wall and into the rez----coming from flower room.

Another trick that I really liked----When the nutes are being flushed down that washing machine drain pipe---I remove a filter in the rez and attach a hose that acts like a vacum to get all the "stuff" out of the rez.

Click to expand...

Clean...

Some awesome stuff here. I love to see the evolution of your grows. Inspiring to say the least.

Great info, cheers.

I hope there's another 50+ locations to come lol

I could read through this kind of stuff all day