amending as you go?

im4satori

Well-Known Member
I know I keep saying it man, and I wish I was there so you could see the way I say it... as in non-offensive
you are overthinking all of this, like 60,000%
where are you roughly?, give me a city or state area, and i'll find you what you need, but you've been told by some of the absolute most knowledgeable organic guru's here the same thing, you are thinking of this all the wrong way, and I guarantee if you continue it'll bite you in the ass, especially if you are making your own soil.
just do not add up the npk numbers, you'll only confuse yourself further and lead you to adjustments you don't need

I think the honest to god best decision for you at this point is to get a bag (or better yet find local) of composted steer manure (cheap), get kelp meal, and get rock dusts, and be done with it.
steer manure will cover essentially everything, and what it lacks the kelp will cover.
start a compost and or a wormbin (preferably both, they are different)
the road you are already going down is going to lead you to frustration, more money spent, and I've seen too many growers do that, and then they think organics is shitty because their grow didn't go well
probably 95% of first time organic growers are guilty of the same thing, so don't feel bad, but you need to listen to us.. you are making waaaaay more work for you than you need to.

trust me, I have a few neurotic tendencies as well, i know what it's like man, and you just gotta resist the urge to overthink/overwork it all



you were thinking of langbeinite, its also called sul/po/mag has a good amount of potassium in it, as well as sulfur and magnesium (hence the sulpomag name)
don't add the potassium silicate, don't add the magnesium sulfate, don't add the potassium sulfate, you don't want that in there at all.

you inquired about potassium inputs, these are good ones to add. I'm not putting the ashes in there because I don't like the solubility or ph fluctuations it has.

comfrey, dandelion and nettles are fantastic sources of potassium, not to mention they are renewable and FREE ( I can't recommend enough on the importance of fresh comfrey as a frequent topdress)
most seed meals are as well, soybean, cottonseed, neem etc
alfalfa meal and kelp are staples in most organic mixes
manures are reaaaally great, for an even bioavailable fertilizer that add humus to the mix as well as microbial diversity, as well as sulfur (crucial for it's role in terpine development)
the best being manure being alpaca (easier to find than one might think, look for alpaca wool farms)
sheep manure is high in potassium too
insect frass is sorta also
my advice is to forget about langbeinite in regards to it being a source of potassium, it's more for micro nutrients and sulfur, but it's to be used very sparingly and depending on your decisions it may be too much (magnesium and potassium in large amounts cause lockouts)

I honestly urge you to take a simpler approach, get some local dairy/steer manure or if you are lucky alpaca manure, then mix that in with your existing ffof, add kelp meal, a form of fresh humus (check craigslist for hippy wormfarmers or composters) and some rock dusts
that will be more user-friendly to you, and much more forgiving.
not to beat a dead horse, but I cannot stress enough the value of having comfrey, dandelion (who can't find those anyways) or stinging nettles
I have yet to use nettles but comfrey is almost a must-have, in fact for me? it is.
I would not do a grow without it personally



I was advised that my original mix might be low in K (I think by you monkey man lol)

dr who also said hes always looking to get the K up in his organic mix and that's why he likes the granite RD and K-S if needed

so I was looking for what organic sources that raise the K
but was trying to avoid frequent soluble K-S inputs

for that matter I was trying to avoid all water soluble inputs that are frequently required due to leaching
id already maxed out the kelp meal and many of the slow release K options (greensand) wouldn't be available until who knows when

I prefer not to use silica in the medium because if its done in a way that provides a decent amount of K it would be a ph issue
and its also a quick/water soluble salt fertilizer

as for the numbers
im not referencing the numbers they way hydro would
I understand the numbers tell you the amount potential npk but not the availability of the npk in any given time frame
therefore they can not be calculated mathematically in the way soluble salts can be

I only look at the numbers as a general reference to how much K might be available over an extended time frame and my goal is just to make sure theres some K on the buffet

ultimately yesterday I decided to simply eliminate the fish meal from the mix thinking in terms of less is more....
so that the total sum of the other amendments (containing K) in the mix will increase fractionally
the fishmeal just had a ton of N and I don't want to end up to hot
N is easy to add and theyres plenty of organic sources of N that are quick if it ends up light but I think itll be fine

most nutrient issues are better defined as nutrient imbalances and occur when one element is too high and blocks another competing element from uptake.... Ive understood that for many moons

so I understand and appreciate the point your making @greasemonkeymann

ive tried comparing the build a soil mix with the link provided on building soil and make sure my total amendments are less than what there recommending .... the build a soil re-amend has a lot more in it than im using that's for sure

I purposely chose to use amendments that are not high in P
theres already some P in there and again P is easy to add organically and quickly if I was short (again don't think I will be)

the only thing ive been chasing is the K

you have mention comfrey a couple times an I have it written down
and I regret that I have yet to look into it, should have done that already

anyway...you did answer my question about K resources and it was great info
the alpaca poop might be viable
ive seen a few farms around

I will be moving soon ....
after we make the move I will be composting for sure
theres a dairy farm 1/2 mile from my new place and my neighbors got horse so manure wont be an issue

I will get them to bring me plenty of poop...they got more than they can use lol
 
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im4satori

Well-Known Member
oh ya
I personally

would never say organic gardening sucks because I fucked it up or didn't get a good result

if it don't grow right its user error, nature got it right

you can look out the window and see that

so that's a stupid thing for someone to say

people just want to stay with whats comfortable and most people are resistant to change
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
so it looks like I need to grow a comfrey patch also...

I tried to see if I could just buy it for now as a garden amendment but theres so many uses and oils and what not..im worried id get the wrong thing

do you grow yours or is there a source to purchase it
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
eventually I will be expanding into my outdoor vegetable garden and landscaping so I take no issue with growing comfrey myself but until I get there........

or maybe its something I can get from the local nursery and grow in a pot?
not sure how many plants id need to make it useful
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
I was advised that my original mix might be low in K (I think by you monkey man lol)

dr who also said hes always looking to get the K up in his organic mix and that's why he likes the granite RD and K-S if needed
yes indeedy, and I stand by my suggestion.
potassium is easily sourced from most vegetation inputs, which is why a compost is loaded with it.
almost all nutrients derived from plants are high in potassium naturally.
I think you should research comfrey, you'll find it's nearly THE perfect plant nutrient.
has everything and it also has heathy ratios of the cations as well, with a rough 10/1 ratio of cal to mag and nearly a 1/1 ratio of calcium to potassium
another thing worth mentioning is that comfrey has very high amounts of silica as well, second only to horsetail.
roughly 4-6% silicic acid, which is water soluble btw
that's substantial considering that nearly all forms of silicon isn't bioavailable to plants
you mentioned using silica in bottle form
 
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greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
so it looks like I need to grow a comfrey patch also...

I tried to see if I could just buy it for now as a garden amendment but theres so many uses and oils and what not..im worried id get the wrong thing

do you grow yours or is there a source to purchase it
oh I grow the bejesus out of it man
nevermind the jasmine, baby aloe and blueberry bush
speaking of, I recommend growing nettles and aloe vera as well if possible.
and make sure you get the bocking variety of comfrey if you plant it in the ground, which you should anyways because of its ability to biodynamically accumulate nutrients from the soil, kinda defeats the purpose in a container
but comfrey will take OVER if you don't use the sterile one


100_0673.JPG
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
yes indeedy, and I stand by my suggestion.
potassium is easily sourced from most vegetation inputs, which is why a compost is loaded with it.
almost all nutrients derived from plants are high in potassium naturally.
I think you should research comfrey, you'll find it's nearly THE perfect plant nutrient.
has everything and it also has heathy ratios of the cations as well, with a rough 10/1 ratio of cal to mag and nearly a 1/1 ratio of calcium to potassium
another thing worth mentioning is that comfrey has very high amounts of silica as well, second only to horsetail.
roughly 4-6% silicic acid, which is water soluble btw
that's substantial considering that nearly all forms of silicon isn't bioavailable to plants
that sounds great

I will start looking into it

so you cut it back before it blooms dry it well... like an herb and put it in an air tight container

maybe crush it well or make it into a flour??

how much do you recommend added per cubc ft?
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
ive got 3 female dream lotus by Bodhi (blue dream x snow lotus) and still a few more of the same seeds put away
and ive got 1 male I might cross to if I get a keeper

theyre in small 5 gallon pots... I will grow the better 1 out in a larger container next time if I get a good one

hopefully itll be something good
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
that sounds great

I will start looking into it

so you cut it back before it blooms dry it well... like an herb and put it in an air tight container

maybe crush it well or make it into a flour??

how much do you recommend added per cubc ft?
oh no, you want it fresh, and you want it as a topdress, I don't use it as a soil input, because of it's balanced carbon to nitrogen ratio, which makes it compost VERY rapidly, with zero sequestering of any nitrogen at all, fairly immediate in it's availability
I cut em fresh, and then I fold a good 20 or so leaves over, and use scissors to shred them into tiny slices, then I match that with fresh castings or compost, I scrape away the toplayer of soil (typically mostly aeration because of the settling during watering) and I mix that 1/1 with castings, and then I bury the comfrey in the castings/aeration mix.
then water like normal, about a week later its gone, no joke, it RAPIDLY dissolves
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
ive got 3 female dream lotus by Bodhi (blue dream x snow lotus) and still a few more of the same seeds put away
and ive got 1 male I might cross to if I get a keeper

theyre in small 5 gallon pots... I will grow the better 1 out in a larger container next time if I get a good one

hopefully itll be something good
it will be, Bodhi juuuust so happens to be my favorite breeder, and I've ran a couple snow lotus hybrids, the most recent being the pink lotus, which came out damn near black.
here's a crappy picture, this pheno was a lil abused, I had too many females and I didn't have room, so I ended up flowering the poor girl in a ONE gallon.. and it understandably went a lil dry on nutrients towards the end..
I also am running the trainwreck x snow lotus right now, but it's still in vege
but I guarantee you'll LOVE the dream lotus..
the SCBD is one of my alltime favorite strains, and everything Bodhi has made has been fantastic, I've ran four or five of his strains at least.
101_0110.JPG
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
mountain temple, pink lotus, pineapplehashplant (awesome), tranquil elephantiser, and dank zappa I've finished.
EDIT, forgot I also ran the purple wookie, and that one was really similar to the pink lotus, which was great
all were just fan-fuckin-tastic
for seeds, I have sunshinedaydream, blue tara, lav-jack, dream beaver, gojo og, annnnd i'm sure I'm missing a few
but yea.. Bodhi is badass man.
check out great lakes genetics for swwwweeeeeet freebies for Bodhi seeds, last I saw it was buy one get one free for the 4/20 promo
 
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greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
im not sure I can grow aloe here

isn't that a tropical plant
nah man, aloe is EASY to grow
as long as it ain't freezing it'll grow, and its more of a succulent so it doesn't like the same soils as cannabis does, needs more sand and more drainage, and less nutrients, I've used old soil before mixed 1/1 with a "cactus" mix, works well
cactus mix on it's own is too dry but half and half with old soil is perfect
and don't overwater them.
but comfrey and aloe are both easy as hell to grow, comfrey is almost idiot proof
I wish you could clone cannabis as easy as comfrey cuttings root
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
lol
I have a pack of goji og

im going to pop half of them on my next seed run
yup, that's what I do too, pop half packs, his packs are 11 seeds so I usually run 6 the first time
he also has a damn good female to male ratio, or at least the ones I have run.
most of his 88g13/hp crosses will slightly herm at around week 6 or so, I've yet to see one actually drop pollen though.
and ALL his seeds oystered within 12 hours of soaking in tepid water
I had the pink lotus seeds oyster in a single work day, I soaked em in the morning, went to open my shop, worked 9 hours, came home, and five of six had oystered already
amazing, I've popped countless seeds and its almost always a good 2-3 days, but ALL of bodhis seeds have been less than a full day
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
yup, that's what I do too, pop half packs, his packs are 11 seeds so I usually run 6 the first time
he also has a damn good female to male ratio, or at least the ones I have run.
most of his 88g13/hp crosses will slightly herm at around week 6 or so, I've yet to see one actually drop pollen though.
and ALL his seeds oystered within 12 hours of soaking in tepid water
I had the pink lotus seeds oyster in a single work day, I soaked em in the morning, went to open my shop, worked 9 hours, came home, and five of six had oystered already
amazing, I've popped countless seeds and its almost always a good 2-3 days, but ALL of bodhis seeds have been less than a full day
we used to grow aloe when I was a kid in florida

didn't do anything to it ever, just stick it in the ground and it grew
I just thought/assumed it was a warm weathr tropical plant

if I leave it outside thru the winter (as low as zero degrees F) itll die and wont come back thou correct?

I could keep it in the window during the winter

yes the dream lotus I got 3 girls out of 5 and all 5 popped quickly
theyre nicely structured so far and healthy... the one is nice and bushy were the other 2 are medium/tall

ive had very good luck with the mandala seeds as far as being very healthy and they also germ almost 100%
plus theirs rarely a dog in a pack.. almost all the phenos will be worth keeping

ive grow the hashberry, satori, ganesh and many satori f2 made at home

im happy with the dna gear I have now but not all the offspring where worth much, got a few dogs in the bunch but the ones that where good are great so its hit or miss from seed

cali is hit and miss and the fems throw hermies

tga the jack the ripper was nice, very lemon extreme

the pineapple express is a good producer and throws mostly worth wild phenos
and in my opinion far better than the critical kush that barnie put out
I grew them side by side and theyre both afghan types
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
we used to grow aloe when I was a kid in florida

didn't do anything to it ever, just stick it in the ground and it grew
I just thought/assumed it was a warm weathr tropical plant

if I leave it outside thru the winter (as low as zero degrees F) itll die and wont come back thou correct?

I could keep it in the window during the winter
nah I think if it's outside in 0 degrees it'll be dead-dead.
I don't think it'll come back, comfrey on the other hand totally will
but aloe ya gotta keep inside in the cold, it'll die in anything around 40 or so, at least the ones I have do.
but either way, any local hardware store (home depot, orchard, etc) will have bigass aloe plants for like ten bucks or so
so even if you needed to buy each yr it's not much.
but I reaaaally like a good fresh aloe gel in the water along with some fresh coco water
that's the only "tea" I ever use
 
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