...All Things Vero...

That's true but it makes it difficult to get relevant figures for "non-common" drive currents.

I'm really liking the C version at 1.05 amps. Output is about identical to the 3590 at 2.1 amps but is running at 70 watts rather than 75 watts. Not a huge gain, but also comes with a price drop.

The C version at .7 amps (about 46 watts) might be a good sub for 3590 at 50 watts, but I'm having issues getting accurate data. With the 3500K 80CRI chip at 855ma and 25C the graph indicates 52% of nominal which comes out to 9846 lumens. However the common drive currents charts lists the 3500/80C variant at 855ma as 10757 lumens. Assuming the chart is correct this leaves me to try and determine 50C LPW for .7 amps based on the 25 and 85C LPW at .855 which means I'm basically guessing. It looks like it should be around 190 LPW but I have no way to be sure.

If it's close to correct this would put the 3500C at 46 watts about 8740 lumens while the 3590 at 50 watts is about 8900 lumens. Again very similar result for a few watts less and a nice price drop.

Are these the ones you're looking at? http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?dc=62985

only 10 bucks a piece.

You make a bar packed with these run really soft, maybe 4000k with a few small far red diodes thrown in. that would , in my imagination at least, kick ass,

Rahz said:

That's true but it makes it difficult to get relevant figures for "non-common" drive currents.

I'm really liking the C version at 1.05 amps. Output is about identical to the 3590 at 2.1 amps but is running at 70 watts rather than 75 watts. Not a huge gain, but also comes with a price drop.

The C version at .7 amps (about 46 watts) might be a good sub for 3590 at 50 watts, but I'm having issues getting accurate data. With the 3500K 80CRI chip at 855ma and 25C the graph indicates 52% of nominal which comes out to 9846 lumens. However the common drive currents charts lists the 3500/80C variant at 855ma as 10757 lumens. Assuming the chart is correct this leaves me to try and determine 50C LPW for .7 amps based on the 25 and 85C LPW at .855 which means I'm basically guessing. It looks like it should be around 190 LPW but I have no way to be sure.

If it's close to correct this would put the 3500C at 46 watts about 8740 lumens while the 3590 at 50 watts is about 8900 lumens. Again very similar result for a few watts less and a nice price drop.

Click to expand...

hey rahz i have 4000k C and D if you want to test it

D matches cree, C beats it

bri77 said:

Are these the ones you're looking at? http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?dc=62985

Click to expand...

The figures are for the Vero 29C, but price/performance for Vero 18 should be similar. The performance jump from gen5 to gen6 wasn't that impressive, but it would be worth upgrading from gen5 to gen7 for those who have older Vero based lamps.

CobKits said:

hey rahz i have 4000k C and D if you want to test it
D matches cree, C beats it

Click to expand...

I really like the selection of products, but trying to use common Meanwell solutions with the C variant is a bit of a PITA. The basic question in keeping the emitter count the same is, use Meanwell and the output remains the same while power draw drops by 7%, or find drivers with the suggested currents and increase the output with efficiency increasing by only about 2.5%. I'm happy with the PPFD values of my lamps so the lower wattage, higher efficiency option is attractive.

Thanks for the offer as always. I will be snagging some 3500K 80CRI at some point for direct comparison with CXB. Do you expect to have those soon? It will be useful to see if the 3590s are performing over spec at this point in time. If 3590s are performing over spec now then switching to Vero becomes less attractive so I need to get that figured out before I get too invested in the switch.

Rahz said:

That's true but it makes it difficult to get relevant figures for "non-common" drive currents.

I'm really liking the C version at 1.05 amps. Output is about identical to the 3590 at 2.1 amps but is running at 70 watts rather than 75 watts. Not a huge gain, but also comes with a price drop.

The C version at .7 amps (about 46 watts) might be a good sub for 3590 at 50 watts, but I'm having issues getting accurate data. With the 3500K 80CRI chip at 855ma and 25C the graph indicates 52% of nominal which comes out to 9846 lumens. However the common drive currents charts lists the 3500/80C variant at 855ma as 10757 lumens. Assuming the chart is correct this leaves me to try and determine 50C LPW for .7 amps based on the 25 and 85C LPW at .855 which means I'm basically guessing. It looks like it should be around 190 LPW but I have no way to be sure.

If it's close to correct this would put the 3500C at 46 watts about 8740 lumens while the 3590 at 50 watts is about 8900 lumens. Again very similar result for a few watts less and a nice price drop.

Click to expand...

Maybe this is more trustworthy? http://www.bridgelux.com/product-simulator

naw i posted about it. 72V was way too high at low currents

Rahz said:

The figures are for the Vero 29C, but price/performance for Vero 18 should be similar. The performance jump from gen5 to gen6 wasn't that impressive, but it would be worth upgrading from gen5 to gen7 for those who have older Vero based lamps.



I really like the selection of products, but trying to use common Meanwell solutions with the C variant is a bit of a PITA. The basic question in keeping the emitter count the same is, use Meanwell and the output remains the same while power draw drops by 7%, or find drivers with the suggested currents and increase the output with efficiency increasing by only about 2.5%. I'm happy with the PPFD values of my lamps so the lower wattage, higher efficiency option is attractive.

Thanks for the offer as always. I will be snagging some 3500K 80CRI at some point for direct comparison with CXB. Do you expect to have those soon? It will be useful to see if the 3590s are performing over spec at this point in time. If 3590s are performing over spec now then switching to Vero becomes less attractive so I need to get that figured out before I get too invested in the switch.

Click to expand...

not gonna stock vero, i may snag a handful for light engines, i can only buy from digikey like everybody else

i got that performance range covered with the 1818 and 1825, latter being 50V which is more driver friendly than C vero

i would be interested in snagging some new crees for testing if you think they are overperforming, ones ive been testing are from may mfr date. saw a fair amount of variation within bins and would love to see them consistently performing at the upper level of that range, where the D veros and 1818s are currently

JorgeGonzales said:

Maybe this is more trustworthy? http://www.bridgelux.com/product-simulator

Click to expand...

Thanks. Doesn't work with Apache but I went ahead and installed MS office. At 50C the simulator is putting the 29C at .7 amps 100 lumens less than 3590 at 1.4 amps, using only 45.3 watts.

At 1.05 amps it's producing 100 lumens more than 3590 at 2.1 amps, using 69.4 watts. Almost exactly what I was coming up with using the dataheets, so it looks like the LPW figures in the common currents chart are (mostly) accurate, and the graphs are not.

CobKits said:

i would be interested in snagging some new crees for testing if you think they are overperforming, ones ive been testing are from may mfr date. saw a fair amount of variation within bins and would love to see them consistently performing at the upper level of that range, where the D veros and 1818s are currently

Click to expand...

I don't know firsthand yet. I've just heard it mentioned that Cree introduces improvements incrementally rather than waiting for revisions. If true, since we're near the end of cycle for the last revision those improvements should show up if they're there.

from what i understand they are binned correctly but the bin codes you get dont always match the order code. so you order DBs and they send you DDs labeled as DDs

but i wouldnt be surprised if there were a few chips that are at (or near) DD in a tray labeled DB

also with the 8% or so range over a bin, there is obv a difference between chips in the lower range vs upper over a given bin

That makes sense but there are no higher bin 3500Ks that I know of. A 3500K DB would raise an eyebrow. If we consider that a baseline possibility in the next revision the 3590 will be slightly more efficient at 75 watts than the 29C at 70. That would/will be worth paying for IMO. But who knows what will end up happening? Bridgelux has certainly done a good job of keeping up.

bri77 said:

Are these the ones you're looking at? http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?dc=62985

only 10 bucks a piece.

You make a bar packed with these run really soft, maybe 4000k with a few small far red diodes thrown in. that would , in my imagination at least, kick ass,

Click to expand...

Great... must have bought the last of the old stock, looks like they are on a fresh batch (2000 and 1000 qty avail...) and about 1.25 less now...
Might have to go ahead and order the second bar worth.

CobKits said:

from what i understand they are binned correctly but the bin codes you get dont always match the order code. so you order DBs and they send you DDs labeled as DDs

but i wouldnt be surprised if there were a few chips that are at (or near) DD in a tray labeled DB

also with the 8% or so range over a bin, there is obv a difference between chips in the lower range vs upper over a given bin

Click to expand...

As stated in CXB3590 data sheet:

Cree XLamp CXB3590 LED order codes specify only a minimum flux bin and not a maximum. Cree may ship reels in flux bins higher than the minimum
specified by the order code without advance notice. Shipments will always adhere to the chromaticity bin restrictions specified by the order code.

Click to expand...

Hi

After some hassle getting imported stuff thru customs (it takes more time than shipping and waiting for outofstock components combined!) i was looking for a eu supplier for vero 29 gen 7 and meanwell hlg185 or 240 at decent prices. Does anyone have a good hookup, preferably all at the same supplier?

I was going to go with digikey until i realized they shipp from the us= more customs problems.


Also, some advice about holders and reflectors:
I was looking into these heatsinks for bar type lights:
http://m.poweralia.com/images/pdf/rg15168_i.pdf
http://m.poweralia.com/perfiles-extruidos-barras/rg15168-10000
Cheap, with solid 9.5 mm base, and thermal resistance of about 0.1, with circumference of over 120 cm, should be good for pure passive for 200 watts of cob.

Only thing is the baseplate where you mount the cob is about 52mm. Its wide enough for drilling and mounting the cob as the mounting holes are about 43 mm apart. I have never worked with holders and reflectors so im not sure if they will fit. Would anybody know what dimensions they have? Either ideal or kingbrite
If i cant fit them on the heatsink i can probably diy something. The datasheet show some fins on the bottom where you could mounts reflective sheet metal.

And of course, does anybody see any downside with this combo?

ReddEyez said:

Has anyone seen the 3000k 90 CRI spectrum anywhere for the Vero 29s yet? Ive looked everywhere and I cannot find one. Thank you... didnt stop me from buying some anyway!

Click to expand...

Its not in the datasheet, but theres a few special spectrums in the decor series datasheet. Theres a graph of the 3000k 97cri, it looks pretty sweet

Say, how many Vero18s would be recommended for good coverage in a 3'x3' scrog cab? 10 or 12?

morvis said:

Say, how many Vero18s would be recommended for good coverage in a 3'x3' scrog cab? 10 or 12?

Click to expand...

What current do you plan on running them at?

bobbuck said:

What current do you plan on running them at?

Click to expand...

Hey thanks for the response, i've finally figured out what's going on with this LED stuff since then and figured out what I need to do.

Rocket Soul said:

Its not in the datasheet, but theres a few special spectrums in the decor series datasheet. Theres a graph of the 3000k 97cri, it looks pretty sweet

Click to expand...

Bridgelux finally included SPDs in the Decor data sheet. 1700K/80CRI looks pretty much like broadband 635 nm red. I'm wondering how efficient it is. Would be nice to have somewhat efficient 'red' in the Vero29 package.
FFS is it so hard to use colored lines BL? This is ...confusing.