...All Things Vero...
- Thread starter AquariusPanta
- Start date
CobKits
Well-Known Member
my money is that the 72V vero performs close to the 1825. but the fact that the 1825 tops out at 25% higher max wattage makes me think it will still have an advantage at high currents. but we'll soon know. jerry made it sound like 36V 4000K first, 3000 and 5000K end of september. no word on higher voltages
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Could there be something screwy with the cree numbers that throws this off? If youre normalizing to cree values? This math is a bit beyond me.
Vero c (Tc25) from datasheet gives 161 lums/watt (aprox 50%efficiency)@ nominal 118watts. Eyeballing those cree numbers and assuming that the efficiency calculations (56% at 50w about right?) from datasheets are right i get ppfd: 8/w should be about 50% efficient. Vero c 29 seems to come in above that at nominal, but im not sure about tha tmath. Could the cree numbers simply not match the datasheet and thats throwing things off? Omg im about to feel the wrath of the cree klan?
CobKits
Well-Known Member
no just normalizing a known efficiency to par/w which should just be a constant. remember ppfd/W is an efficiency measure and assuming all of the spectrum is within 400-700 it should be constant factor
i think their simulator is busted
this makes more sense:
at 400mA = 25W
nominal 161 lm reading = 19120 lm @ 118.7W
25% of nominal flux = 4780 lm / 25W = 191.2 lm/W
191.2 /324 = 59% eff @ 25W. a little low but makes more sense than 75%.
cree PCT and citi simulator both have their simultors topping out in low 190s in lm/W at 25-40W
nobodys hitting 235 lm/W (yet!)
i think their simulator is busted
this makes more sense:
at 400mA = 25W
nominal 161 lm reading = 19120 lm @ 118.7W
25% of nominal flux = 4780 lm / 25W = 191.2 lm/W
191.2 /324 = 59% eff @ 25W. a little low but makes more sense than 75%.
cree PCT and citi simulator both have their simultors topping out in low 190s in lm/W at 25-40W
nobodys hitting 235 lm/W (yet!)
CobKits
Well-Known Member
its kinda cool tbh that all the manufacturers are so close on performance for a given LES size....
shows that everybody is pushing hard and near state of the art
that said we cant expect miracles in performance, just really aggressive pricing to make one option really stand out over another
shows that everybody is pushing hard and near state of the art
that said we cant expect miracles in performance, just really aggressive pricing to make one option really stand out over another
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
If its another 2 months until vero C hits kingbrite i might go straight to getian to get the 3838 and a few more low K of your light engine to balance out the getian coming in at 4000k
@CobKits how long did they take for arriving from getian?
CobKits
Well-Known Member
i used a factor of 6.4 to convert my ppfd/W to % eff, based on DB cree 60% efficient at 35W - an approximation but all chips treated equally. temp droop jsut flattens or steepens the curves but the relative relationships are the same
CobKits
Well-Known Member
i think it was 21 days or so from paying them to getting samples, they say 7 day lead time on 100 pc orders so 14+ days for me to get them.
again they wont do anything but 4000 or 5000k unless you buy 100 pc and pay extra
1825s are a few more bucks but i have those in all colors ready to ship now.. and they are 50V as opposed to 100V and outperform the getians
its hard to get everything you want.
getian = lower price and quick lead time but high minimum order + cost of importing
citizen = better chips, they import for me, can order as few as 20, but takes 4 weeks....
im chip agnostic. i hope the new veros kill it and are cheap, we all win. i dont have that many more citis and am playing it cool with ordering too many more... chip market is too dynamic
hard to believe even better citis in 2017Q1. hopefully i get some samples in 2016Q4
would be cool if they dropped the horticultural chips on us that @rmr2 was talking about
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weed-whacker
Well-Known Member
yup
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Ive got a friend who works for an international stage light company that promised to look into samples for me. Will hit him up for next gen citis for 2017q1
Phillies1990502
New Member
What's the difference between these two Vero 13s? Other than being square? I have 2 old 300w panels I'm switching to Vero 13s. I did one with 6th gens. I was going order more but came across these 7th gen and I'm wondering if I can use them. Seems they only have 3000k in stock. Also with the voltage at the test current of 630mA the voltage is 33.9 my driver does 100volts each at that voltage I wouldn't be able to do 3. I plan on running them at 550mA will it be able to run 3? Or should I just stick with the 6th gen at 31 volts?
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-30E2000-B-73/976-1400-ND/6152410
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRE-30E2000-C-73/976-1379-ND/6152389
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-30E2000-B-73/976-1400-ND/6152410
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRE-30E2000-C-73/976-1379-ND/6152389
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CobKits
Well-Known Member
nice. different industry angle but photons be photons
PhotonFUD
Well-Known Member
15w at 85% I am in!
It would take 6 1212s run at 3w for one of these running at 20w. Price wise the vero would be roughly half the capital cost.
optzulu
Well-Known Member
Cobkits why is the citizen spreadsheet giving such low effi% numbers ? I don't get It, your numbers are like 15-20lm/w higher then what Citizen is saying. I know real world data is different but still we are talking here about 10%+ difference and that is huge.
If I read the citizen pdf sheet It says there can be a 10% difference between a chip maybe you this explains it ? And you have the golden nugget pheno of the cobs haha in your tests.
If I read the citizen pdf sheet It says there can be a 10% difference between a chip maybe you this explains it ? And you have the golden nugget pheno of the cobs haha in your tests.
smokey the cat
Well-Known Member
Why don't people run Vero in parallel?
Bought two of the earliest 18s and had no problem running both off a single Mean Well LPF-60D. Not even the same color chips - 3500k &3000k. Driver delivers ~830mA each at full intensity, close to 85% of nominal output.
There will be a bit of variation between the cob's output, but this seems like a useful way of getting a a cheap driver to run 2 chips. To me it seems like a no-brainer. What am I missing here?
I'm looking at rebooting an array with new gen7 cobs. Thinking to use two old lpf-60d to each power a couple of the 4000k. Guessing it will easily be over 150 lumens/watt
Bought two of the earliest 18s and had no problem running both off a single Mean Well LPF-60D. Not even the same color chips - 3500k &3000k. Driver delivers ~830mA each at full intensity, close to 85% of nominal output.
There will be a bit of variation between the cob's output, but this seems like a useful way of getting a a cheap driver to run 2 chips. To me it seems like a no-brainer. What am I missing here?
I'm looking at rebooting an array with new gen7 cobs. Thinking to use two old lpf-60d to each power a couple of the 4000k. Guessing it will easily be over 150 lumens/watt
SilvioBerlusconi
Active Member
Yeah, 70% eff would be 230lm/W... thats just impossible!
A CLU048-1212 at 100mA and 25°C (3,2W Pd!!) does 192lm/W.... thats not even 60% mate.
CobKits
Well-Known Member
well by datasheet. the 1212s are pushing 70% at 100 mA. but measurements that low are subject to error. 5-10 umol of stray ambient lighting can affect your measurements by +/-10% at those extreme low levels. need to test multiple chips at once and average at low currents like that. for now, take any measurements under 10W with a grain of salt