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All Natural Organics. The Dons' Summaries + FAQ Thread. <2017-'18>

Discussion in 'Organics' started by DonTesla, Nov 17, 2017.


    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    firstnamelast and calliandra like this.

    lexaf Member

    Hey first of all i wanted to thank you all for this great thread. Its been very intresting reading it.
    I have done one successful grow in coco with synthetic nutes. Now i want to switch to organics because i only grow for myself and just want the highest quality. Groom room is 3.8m*2.5mm and 2.9m high, I want to build 1 flower room with probably 6 pots with moisture sensors in the pots controlled with an arduino to manage watering, temps, humidity, the fans etc. I have a 300W diy cob led fixture prob. using it for the veg room, i am planing on using chilledgrowlights in the flower room(if i can afford them) and t8 for clones. I wanted to take clones shortly after i flip them (good idea?).

    Many of my questions have answered thanks to firstnamelast/DonTesla
    As soil i will probably use DonTesla recipe on page 14

    1. In what do i put my clones do i put them straight into soil?
    2. If i understood it right Don has a seed company or smth like this do you ship to germany if yes can you send me a link?
    3. After mixing the soil how long should it sit before planting in it?
    4. Do i plant the seeds just in the soil after they germed?
    5. What is the difference between Vermicompost and castings
    6. What do you think of amino and humic acid?
    7. Thaughts on Trichoderma?
    8. What is bsfly frass its from insects right? which insects?

    I hope to learn from your experience
    DonTesla and firstnamelast like this.

    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    Hey how do you know the first step of your LABS turned out ok? I've got quite a few that grew mold in them, a big deal or no?

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    1. clones straight into your hand made soil mix, they'll be fine
    2. don will get ahold of you
    3. 3-4 weeks for proper inoculation and settling
    4. you may want to cut your mix for seedlings with some extra base soil (the drainage/peat/compost mix)
    5. there is no difference between the two, they are one in the same. home made castings will be far better than what is in the stores (and much cheaper)
    6. compost will contain humic and fulvic acids. plant builds it own aminos.
    7. trichoderma is in pretty much every beneficial mix you can buy. It is pretty common in everyone's soil i'm quite sure.
    8. black soldier fly frass. yes from the insect the black soldier fly. frass = manure from insects!
    CaptainSnap and firstnamelast like this.

    lexaf Member

    A few more questions :D
    In the recipe on page 14 for the Aeriation blend you use same parts of pumice biochar and diatomaceous earth right and then 40%-45% of that in the full mix?
    How often/in what quantities do i need the "continuous use / larger quantity ?" things i want to grow in 4-6 100L pots for flower ?

    Sadly i cant find any black soldier fly frass in germany/shipping to germany the only insect frass that i could find here is from mealworms should i take that or rather dont use it?
    Is it worth trying to make my own black soldier fly frass?
    Its also hard to find diatomaceous earth in rocks and not as powder here, are 4-6mm big pieces enough, if i cant find rocks what alternatives would you recommend or should i compensate with more pumice and biochar?
    I can only order Glacial rock dust from US how important do you rate it or with what to replace?
    Is ENDO and ECTO Myco ok?

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    the "continuous use" items are what you'll be using regularly like your kelp meal, neem meal, crab meal, and stuff like that. they'll go in your initial soil mix, but you'll also be topdressing with them along the way, and just using them more often. rock dusts are applied to a mix once, and generally not reapplied for several grows because they take a long time to break down. as long as you're buying them 5-10 lbs at a time, you're doing fine.

    mealworm frass would work fine IMO. It would be far too difficult to make your own frass indoors. that's why i like slow/cold composting outdoors. you get a mix of insect frass, vermicompost, and bacterial broken down humus all in one pile!

    no sweat on the diatom rocks. pumice works great. another thing you can substitute for is those red lava rocks (scoria is the name) and crush them up into smaller pieces and use that as well (and its really cheap!). biochar should be limited to no more than ~5% of the entire mix volume (i think, i may be wrong on that figure).

    glacial rock dust is fine, but in my opinion its far too powdery in its marketed form. Basalt rock dust is where its at, more sand like in texture. if you can't get basalt... no big deal. glacial will work fine. you can also see if you can find greensand, soft rock phosphate or langbeinite minerals.

    endo and ecto-myco are exactly what you need!
    firstnamelast likes this.

    giglewigle Well-Known Member

    iv got some blue rassberrys i wanna pop but tje seeds are tiney as is there a diot proof way to plant them im planing on growing them in coco and doing some in tje back garden and comparing them dont supose any one has any tips also planning on using roots exelurater
    DonTesla likes this.

    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    You're right about the biochar 5% for sure
    DonTesla likes this.
    Canadain Closet Gardener

    Canadain Closet Gardener Well-Known Member

    Do you think it's a bad idea to dump what's left of my vaping in my worm bin?
    DonTesla likes this.

    ShLUbY Well-Known Member

    you can make cannabutter/oil with that stuff... like 3oz/lb of butter... or just put it in the worm bin :) . don't see what it would hurt...
    DonTesla likes this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    I think it would be better served as butter for brownies, but yes, you can put it in your worm bin, they will enjoy the snack attack, or mine would! thats for sure, lol.

    Those small seeds.. don't let them fool you.. many of the Gravies have small seeds, and they are suuuuper potent...

    I would just let them pop as usual.. if using water, just rinse em daily.. no chlorine..
    and yeah, maybe screen the starting medium so its finer.. and I would also lean to low fungals to start!

    I see numbers all over the place when it comes to trials / university and farm studies.. but yeah, what I do know, is that every single percent of biochar can play a huge role, and although I have seen recommendations as high as 50%, I like to play in the 5 to 10 % range myself. I noticed improvements after just 1-2% additions.
    firstnamelast likes this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    1. You can also use EWC / vermicompost and 50% aeration, or you can use your flowering mix cut in half with say peat or coco and aeration.. normally I like to go a bit finer and a bit lighter when starting, but almost everything is fair game.. I would watch out for high P is all if you are looking to get a myco bite later on

    2. You can email Jah at [email protected] or Dm on IG (Just google Jah Earth) and yes, Germany is no problem, that is where I am from btw!

    3. If using alfalfa meal, more than 1/4 cup per cf, you may want to let it mellow and ferment for a couple weeks, just wait for the heat wave and let it dissipate! Lots of bone meal, blood meal, really high kelp, etc can make it get hotter too.. but in general, I can plant in all my mixes directly after mixing now, with the exception of the 2% kelp recipe...

    4. You can plant directly in soil, especially F1 and highly vigorous beans, as taproots do attract beneficial microbes before they even pop, but you can also create tails in water, and plant direct from there too..

    5. Vermicompost is much like castings, but castings are more pure, and more refined, and more finished.. it takes 6 weeks to make VC which can still be almost 50% manure when screened finer, whereas castings are refined for about a year and contain no starting material or bedding.. they are highly microbial and contain about 10x more microbes than the comparative VC. Both are good, but castings are even better, especially when it comes to using denser, larger manures, and cheaper / more inferior beddings, such as cardboard, and newspaper ..

    6. Amino's and humics are naturally abundant in fresh diy castings and VC so I have never endorsed them, since I endorse the worm farming above all else.. for its quality/ quality control and the free humic as well as fulvics.. and fresh castings are rich in amino's too! Mine get lots of fresh nuts from our home made milks, and avocado halves ..

    7. Agressive. Can outcompete other bene's so I go for myco that has no Trichoderma. Aim for 100% glomus usually. Trichoderma is also present in coco etc. so its very easy to introduce. Couple grains of rice can bring it in. Not something I ever worry about making sure I have enough of..

    8. Shluby nailed it, thanks G! Feel free to search Insect Frass posts too. I've dropped some really cool facts on it!!
    firstnamelast, SSGrower and ShLUbY like this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    Good questions!

    Yeah, I would say, go for pumice if anything.. even perlite if thats all you can get.. it compacts a bit more and is abit less robust / clean, but can do you fine til you find more suppliers throughout the year..

    then you can always add a little leaf mould / rotting wood locally.. and make your aeration a bit more complex...

    and you can also make a bit of bio char from burning some stems or sticks. Just 1-5% would be very beneficial.. although I don't mind 10% myself.

    To me, mealworm just isn't worth it, or as effective as Soldier Fly, so I would just skip it altogether, for now, and use a bit of crab shell meal if you can find that, or something else with chitin. You can also ferment rice wash and make LABS, or ferment citrus peels, as well as look into enzyme teas or SSTs (corn, alfalfa seed, mung bean, etc) to get that autoimmune response and coveted praying reaction

    If making your own frass, cheap to go with crickets! But again, I would just use the above, maybe some coconut too.. then you'll have loads of enzymes and happy times.

    For GRD, one example is how Hyroot uses 2 cups Basalt and 2 cups Gypsum per cf

    Endo and Ecto is ok, but Endo is intracellular and actually penetrates the individual cells creating a direct feed (beneficial), vs just creating a sheathe that surrounds the cells but does not penetrate..

    Happy gardening guys, here's some beautiful super sticky pre 98 Bubba Meltdown for the eye candy side of things!!!!!

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    ShLUbY, firstnamelast and MrKnotty like this.

    DonTesla Well-Known Member


    DonTesla Well-Known Member

    @lexaf see above :)

    Here is the CTF by the way, folks, for those not on the other thread, RM3 site, or IG..

    this shit was nuts!!

    Terpy, tasty, and beastly.. got almost 20 ounces out of a 7 gallon pot in the far back corner, good thing we kept her eh!

    Screen Shot 2018-03-20 at 4.33.05 PM.png
    ShLUbY and firstnamelast like this.

    firstnamelast Well-Known Member

    What's the other thread

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