Adventures in Closed Loop

Fadedawg said:

Because at 115F and -29.5" Hg, the oil is more liquid and not as viscous or prone to stick together and stretch like taffy.

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Oh ok I see what you mean there but going that route don't you find you get much darker extract due to the longer higher temp purge? I experimented that way before with going to those temps as soon as I extracted but found a darker extract came of it so I went back to doing low temp demuffining and lower temp purge until most of the tane is gone then turning up the temp to get the last of the tane out and dehydrating the material.

Doer said:

I would hate to buy something like that and then find it can't control the low temperature range we need. Gotta do the homework and don't trust the capitalists.

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The ovens he is bringing in do hold low temps for extracts that's why he started bringing them in. There are youtube vids of the ovens he's bringing in and guys have been running extracts with them for awhile now. I will be getting one from him soon.

Cool! Get that oven!

Hey, about the darkening. I have been getting that as well when I use boiling water steam to drive off the ethanol. But, I think the idea here is that 115F @29.5 is not to caramel temperature. We will see.

I think that is the point, anyway.

BCOGYODA said:

Oh ok I see what you mean there but going that route don't you find you get much darker extract due to the longer higher temp purge? I experimented that way before with going to those temps as soon as I extracted but found a darker extract came of it so I went back to doing low temp demuffining and lower temp purge until most of the tane is gone then turning up the temp to get the last of the tane out and dehydrating the material.

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The issue is time at temperature. I've found that that purging at that level of puddle fluidity, under -29.5 Hg, gets the butane out faster than lower temperatures, so it is exposed to heat for a shorter period of time.

BCOGYODA said:

The ovens he is bringing in do hold low temps for extracts that's why he started bringing them in. There are youtube vids of the ovens he's bringing in and guys have been running extracts with them for awhile now. I will be getting one from him soon.

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Any idea on price, out of curiosity?

Yoda the ovens are pretty much the same prices as they are on the website, The guy in coquitlam's my buddy, I never asked what the brokerage and shipping was because I don't use an Ai brand vac oven but considered there importation value.

I found another source for specialty, sanitary fittings, This will solve my view problem when I recover the solvent.
http://www.stilldragon.com/torpedos.html
6" x 4" x 3" Torpedo Top

And my parts for the still head arrived from St Pats of Texas. I think it will work.

The final reducer has a nice domed lead in, so I don't get solvent collecting there.

It looks like my condenser is lost over the Pacific somewhere. The other glass got here, so I have flasks and vac adapters but no column. It is very tough to attach vacuum to glass, without expensive parts or thin suction tubes.

I'm still working on that.

IAC, I've decided to go with a copper Leibig so I can attach a sanitary flange.

This is from Still Dragon.





I will pack the inner 3/4" with copper scrubber material, so that will have a lot of cold condensation surface.

I still need to figure out how to continue vacuum through a collection flask and a cold trap and then to a 3/8" SAE connection on the pump.

Ideas?

Fadedawg said:

As you note, heat and pressure at the cold trap are critical for maximum recovery. Depending on piping losses, that may not leave you with optimum pressure at the vacuum chamber, but is the parameter that you must pay close attention to, or you will just boil away the alcohol in the cold trap as well.

Here is a chart that appears pretty close, compliments of Skyhighler.

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I suddenly saw the big picture If you want 115F for the boil, you want to go to around 3 psi at that end. The trap end will be less pressure.

But, I pull the trap too low, I may never get the trap cold enough to condense.

Puzzle, puzzle. Glass to metal. Vacuum chamber to pump. Why glass? It's clear and clean and cool.

Alas, my Graham condenser from China got lost, for now. IAC, I like plan B. I am making the Leibig out of copper and will begin that with a Sanitary fitting, Stainless to 1" copper. But, the question is how to get from that to glass? The little stoppers are expensive and hard to find the exact thing.....and I didn't.

But, I did find a 1.25 inch tube just fits the copper 1" connector and will fit the mouth of a 24/40 ground glass entry.

I have some 1" o-ring to try, also but this is done of with a roll of teflon tape. I build up the lip a little and the glass neck a lot. I wrapped a bit of Teflon over the front of the lip and push the copper coupling up against it.

I've been using the 'Loop Botanicals' 1.5-2lb model for @9 months now and am really been happy with rig!

thump easy said:

i gota get one of those?? i wounder can anyone weld some shit like this??? is it that hard???i have been fucking around with that buckner funell how is the dewax come out??????can i see your guys art work???

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I hear it's not that hard to make one of these. I'm not a welder but a friend of mine who is told me that it's mostly parts only a couple welds. And it's such a low pressure system any decent stainless welder could do it.

BCOGYODA said:

Another question so when the butane is recovered back as a liquid how do we re use that liquid and put it into a pressurized state where we can blast it again?

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The closed loop systems stay pressurised so just top off the tank and go . I've seen the same tank that I have be topped off with new butane 10+ times before it was changed and all the end product was good.

obi wan ganjobi said:

I hear it's not that hard to make one of these. I'm not a welder but a friend of mine who is told me that it's mostly parts only a couple welds. And it's such a low pressure system any decent stainless welder could do it.

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I herd of a cat I usto frequent that us to be from the desert herd he started his own bizzness he won the northern Cali cup secret first place by the name of Ariee?? If he is maken them shit it can't be that hard???

Finally got set up last night to test the vacuum connectors and the two glass flasks together. Works great. I've been wondering if I need vacuum grease on the ground glass connectors.

Nope. It pulls down to nothing in a hurry, no leaks.

obi wan ganjobi said:

The closed loop systems stay pressurised so just top off the tank and go . I've seen the same tank that I have be topped off with new butane 10+ times before it was changed and all the end product was good.

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Do you know how much you lose? Do you weigh your butane tank or how do you tell when you lost some?

I'm just getting set up to run the first time.

Doer said:

It is sight glass. You look in through it. It is dark in there. So, you also need a Light Port.

There are top caps to look down, there are special lights to look past from the outside to see. I have a side glass port to look into.

But, I will use a vertical in-line glass to provide illumination.

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For the record. Sight glasses have their uses, but their limitations as well. The Chinese manufacturers say they will withstand 150 psi, but not in any of their official brochures. Accepting that at face value, the ANSI rating would be around a third of that, or 50 psi.

While a system will normally operate under 50 psi, it is possible to hit over 100 psi with heat and the right combined screw ups, and a system should tolerate worst case scenario.

A butane storage tank is limited to an 80% to keep thermal expansion pressures under the 350/450 psi limits on the tanks, so consider if you have your sight glasses on the columns between two closed valves, and the column is full to the brim, that you have hydralic pressures greater than 150 psi. I know of two instances of someone loosing track of what they were doing and exploding their top of column sight glass.

All of WolfWurx, Inc commercial units use high pressure sight glasses in all applications, rated from 720 psi at 250F, and available to 3000 psi.

My sight glass now is 1/2 inch wide and 1/2 inch thick. It won't explode. But, I can't see anything but across to a gas port. I'm not sure why it is included. Even if it was lighted, I still can't see the bottom plate.

Doer said:

My sight glass now is 1/2 inch wide and 1/2 inch thick. It won't explode. But, I can't see anything but across to a gas port. I'm not sure why it is included. Even if it was lighted, I still can't see the bottom plate.

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Looking at the bottom chamber plate is a different matter. Have you looked at the BL 103-9 2" LED lit single view ports by Borlan Fluid? They shine a beam down the sight hole.

Fadedawg said:

Looking at the bottom chamber plate is a different matter. Have you looked at the BL 103-9 2" LED lit single view ports by Borlan Fluid? They shine a beam down the sight hole.

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Yes, I looked at those. My sight glass looks across the chamber, and not down into it. So, a light won't help.