advanced nutrients vs. fox farm

Uncle Ben said:

And just how much does it have? What good are these "aminos". Gawd, you guys will fall for anything.

Big Bud at $80! Are you guys nuts? Hell, fold that damn bill and send it to me @

FoolsRUs
420 Weebee Spending Down Da Road
Nantucket, NY



High P foods induce stretch and do not support leaf maintenance and development. High K foods induce a lockout of Ca, Mg, and N and also do not support leaves. Sorry, but the only thing AN knows is how to rip off noobs, and according to the responses in this thread, they're doing a damn good job.

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm


UB

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haha i like how i didnt get quoted and left the part where i said $8-$10 per grow and you focused on the $80 for the initial investment with a sarcastic response.

Mark5:9 said:

Dutch Master Gold A+B
AN Connie A+B
Humboldt's Master A+B

All use amino's..

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Or so they say, as if I'm supposed to be impressed by da claim of "bigger and betta buds". Ya man, it's sooooooo cool to use some of dem amino acids and shit.

EDTA has been used for decades as a chelator for such important metals as iron. Apparently your good ol boyz have not made you aware of the dangers of amino acids. Wanna chelate some barium? <cough> (I can hear the mantra now, "but it's PURE" hehe)

The potential of such substances for detrimental chemical interactions with other materials used in organic farming systems.

As chelating agents, amino acids increase the biological availability of different metals. Chelating agents in general can enhance nutrient uptake, but may also increase the uptake of toxic metals if those are also present.

If cation impurities are present in micronutrient sources (e.g. cadmium), chelation of those metals would make those contaminants more readily assimilated by plants than in less available forms.

(2) The toxicity and mode of action of the substance and of its breakdown products or any contaminants, and their persistence and areas of concentration in the environment.

Glycine is one of the least stable amino acids, rapidly degrading into ammonia, amides, and aliphatic amines (Cheshire et al., 1990). Acute oral toxicity is 3,000 mg/kg (cat) (NIEHS, 1999). Salmonella
tests for mutagenicity are negative (Haworth et al., 1983). Carcinogenicity and teratogenicity studies are not available (NIEHS, 1999).

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http://www.omri.org/Amino_acid_crops.pdf

Those boyz just might be selling your happy ass down the river. You are a slave to their sales pitch, charts, "instructions" and such.... are you not?

How many of these have you tried Ben? ZERO?

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Damn straight, zero, for the reasons stated. Mama didn't raise no fool.

Look, it's kinda the same premise when noobs like you push sugar, molasses and such as a soil drench. If sugar was so wonderful, it would be sold as a fertilizer, not that it can cross a root's epidermal layer anyway. It's a large molecule, but you guys are gonna use it anyway cause "everyone is doing it". The above info would scare me right out of using amino acid products. Probably why Peters, Plant Products, Schultz and other value, high quality producers of plant foods don't include amino acids, instead choosing to chelate micros with EDTA. http://petersabc.com/PDFs/Peters%20Pro/99720ppro24-8-16FPL.pdf

Enjoy your cadmium, barium, whatever it is you enjoy so much.

BTW, obsessively attacking the messenger does not make your case. Salts are salts, hype is hype, and Cannabis Cup judges can (and are) bought off, just ask Arjan.

UB

wow, Ben can win the argument with logic so you resort to ridicule and now scare tactics? You act like you have something to loose? Wonder what that might be? I find it very hard to believe that you're on the side of our good health and you want save us from the evils of soluble metals in our pot.. LOL I think you're just being a sour pus.

As the master Gardner you claim to be you should know that EDTA has its issues and limitations and you sure as hell should know that it will chelate those metals also leading to the same problem you say they shouldn't use amino's for. LOL Kind of shot yourself in the foot with that one didn't ya? You're answer of "well if you use too much it might hurt something" isn't going to cut it. If you water too much it will hurt it.. so should I not water my plants?

Quit grasping at straws, your points are irrelevant to the thread and now you know you're just trolling for attention like a drama queen.

Mark5:9 said:

wow, Ben can win the argument with logic so you resort to ridicule and now scare tactics? You act like you have something to loose? Wonder what that might be? I find it very hard to believe that you're on the side of our good health and you want save us from the evils of soluble metals in our pot.. LOL I think you're just being a sour pus.

As the master Gardner you claim to be you should know that EDTA has its issues and limitations and you sure as hell should know that it will chelate those metals also leading to the same problem you say they shouldn't use amino's for. LOL Kind of shot yourself in the foot with that one didn't ya? You're answer of "well if you use too much it might hurt something" isn't going to cut it. If you water too much it will hurt it.. so should I not water my plants?

Quit grasping at straws, your points are irrelevant to the thread and now you know you're just trolling for attention like a drama queen.

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a really lively debate here, huh?

i wonder if people realize that Advanced Nutrients prob wants people mentioning them every chance they can even if it is to call them out.

You know - any publicity is good publicity.

seems like everyone really has their heels dug in for their own grow systems. makes sense, know i was like that at first...

dontcha wish people could just be okay with what they like and not feel they need to rip on other people to sorta make themselves feel better about their grows?

Seems like a waste of time, doesn't it?

get back to your plants!

Sensibowl said:

You know - any publicity is good publicity.

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Not if you ask Tiger..

Don't blame the guy for starting the thread. I'm not defending my method. I'm just talking about the two choices he has. Either way FF or AN will work..

It's Ben that has a panities in a bunch and doesn't want anyone talking about those foods..

Here are the labels for Advanced Nutrients' Bud Candy, Nirvana, and Kushie Kush. Note that they are not the main ferts; they are advertised as such: Bud Candy-flavor, aroma, and yield enhancer; Nirvana-100% Natural Bloom Biostimulant; Kushie Kush-Bloom booster specifically designed for kush growers. Again, those are their words, not mine. The Kushie Kush is very similar to the Big Bud, but it contains a few more minerals and different ratios of the ingredients. What do you guys think? They've been pretty good to me, but my experience is pretty limited so far.

I grow hydro only and use the the AN and have good results...... I perfer them over fox farms, which i used to use......I would like to hear what UncleBen has to say about the PH perfect from AN.....

UB im sure you dont grow hydro but you got any suggestions on nutes? I would love to try your recommended line up and see how it stacks up to the AN....

BonusAgricola said:

Here are the labels for Advanced Nutrients' Bud Candy, Nirvana, and Kushie Kush. Note that they are not the main ferts; they are advertised as such: Bud Candy-flavor, aroma, and yield enhancer; Nirvana-100% Natural Bloom Biostimulant; Kushie Kush-Bloom booster specifically designed for kush growers. Again, those are their words, not mine. The Kushie Kush is very similar to the Big Bud, but it contains a few more minerals and different ratios of the ingredients. What do you guys think? They've been pretty good to me, but my experience is pretty limited so far.

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wow, bud candy looks like a shotgun blast of sweetness.

Mark5:9 said:

wow, bud candy looks like a shotgun blast of sweetness.

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Yeah, and it smells like the sweetest molasses ever. The carbs and sugars in it really help the bacteria and mycorrhizal fungi in the roots, too.

BonusAgricola said:

Here are the labels for Advanced Nutrients' Bud Candy, Nirvana, and Kushie Kush. Note that they are not the main ferts; they are advertised as such: Bud Candy-flavor, aroma, and yield enhancer; Nirvana-100% Natural Bloom Biostimulant; Kushie Kush-Bloom booster specifically designed for kush growers. Again, those are their words, not mine. The Kushie Kush is very similar to the Big Bud, but it contains a few more minerals and different ratios of the ingredients. What do you guys think? They've been pretty good to me, but my experience is pretty limited so far.

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Thanks for the laugh, it made my day. I really love the 2.0% chlorophyll and carotene in the "Nirvana" one. Nothing like shakin' a little chlorophyll and carrot juice over dem roots, nah sah. And the 1% potassium in the "Bud Candy" will make a huge difference for sure, as will the other stuff (that no bonafide professional plant food manufacturer would try to pass off as being beneficial).

Hmmmmm, what makes a Kush any different than any other weed? Nothing, and you're a fool if you fall for that hype. You use that 1-7-17 crap and I guarantee your yields WILL be lower, Kush or no Kush. Any grower that understands plant nutritional requirements will agree.

Ya know what, those labels look so good to me, I think you ought to buy the whole line, and soon too before they raise their prices!

Uncle Ben said:

Thanks for the laugh, it made my day. I really love the 2.0% chlorophyll and carotene in the "Nirvana" one. Nothing like shakin' a little chlorophyll and carrot juice over dem roots, nah sah. And the 1% potassium in the "Bud Candy" will make a huge difference for sure, as will the other stuff (that no bonafide professional plant food manufacturer would try to pass off as being beneficial).

Hmmmmm, what makes a Kush any different than any other weed? Nothing, and you're a fool if you fall for that hype. You use that 1-7-17 crap and I guarantee your yields WILL be lower, Kush or no Kush. Any grower that understands plant nutritional requirements will agree.

Ya know what, those labels look so good to me, I think you ought to buy the whole line, and soon too before they raise their prices!

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I don't know why you go on and on with this mindless, baseless nonsense. We've all gathered that you've never tried the product and so really you DON'T know how it performs or whether it's worth the cost. You just want to take take your "holier than thou" approach and although I've asked many times what you would suggest in the way of a simple product that can be used and a generic feeding schedule followed that will provide the same or better results for less cost, WITHOUT becoming a professional horticulturist which requires someone generally to teach you and show you the way.

Not everyone knows anyone else that grows and can show them the way. Generally if they do, they aren't really at the level that they should be teaching someone else. The blind leading the blind and lots of crops are lost, yields are crappy, money is wasted and really the BEST all around products for growing are things like AN, FF, GH and the other Canna related nutes.

Goin' out half cocked and trying to cook up your own vats of various forms of shit to make teas and figure out all of the nonsense is left to the backwoods farm boys.

This thread was about AN vs. FF and you feel the need to come in and just rain down on both of them repeatedly. Nobody cares in this thread UB, and in this thread and others I've asked you for guidance and received nothing. So you like to spread the hate, but not the love and knowledge? Where's UB's line of nutrients so we can go ahead and purchase them? Then why the smear campaign against these successful nutrient mfg's that are providing customers a product at a price that the market is willing to bear?

There's a reason the company makes so much money and it's not just marketing...their product works. Marketing got me to buy it the first time, I've used it for years because it works. I've helped other growers use it and the word of mouth part is much bigger than any print or other advertising they do. Most people find out about Sensi A/B because another grower told them to use it.

laserbrn said:

I don't know why you go on and on with this mindless, baseless nonsense.

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If you don't know by now, I'm not going to explain it to you. If you knew anything about plant nutrition, you wouldn't be sucking up to such shysters.

There is NO value in the 3 products listed. None, nada. It's basically pure water fool. 1% K and the other malarky included has NO REAL WORLD VALUE.

This is hilarious!

So you got 10 oz on your last garden? Well done! I got 11 oz of dried bud on this ONE plant using a $5.00 box of Walmart fertilizer.

Uncle Ben said:

If you don't know by now, I'm not going to explain it to you. If you knew anything about plant nutrition, you wouldn't be sucking up to such shysters.

There is NO value in the 3 products listed. None, nada. It's basically pure water fool. 1% K and the other malarky included has NO REAL WORLD VALUE.

This is hilarious!

So you got 10 oz on your last garden? Well done! I got 11 oz of dried bud on this ONE plant using a $5.00 box of Walmart fertilizer.

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Good job? I dont' know what to tell ya buddy. I got 13 oz's out of my last grow and the one before it. I didn't have the space filled properly and could've done better. Showing pictures from 1995 doesn't really impress me either.

Uncle Ben said:

If you don't know by now, I'm not going to explain it to you. If you knew anything about plant nutrition, you wouldn't be sucking up to such shysters.

There is NO value in the 3 products listed. None, nada. It's basically pure water fool. 1% K and the other malarky included has NO REAL WORLD VALUE.

This is hilarious!

So you got 10 oz on your last garden? Well done! I got 11 oz of dried bud on this ONE plant using a $5.00 box of Walmart fertilizer.

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Uncle Ben, I've been reading your stuff for a month or so now and I'm with you. I see what you're getting at and do agree.

I see you having the same sort of problems that Roseman did with people not accepting your style. I just hope you don't leave the way Roseman did because of all the harshness you get.

My advice to other newbies like me, read all you can now and appreciate the advice he's giving out, face it, the price for the info is right! You never know how long it will last. You don't have to agree with him, but you do need to pay attention, increase your overall education. The more you learn the more you can help yourself when you run into trouble.

I'll guarantee you one thing, the experienced, educated growers we have here will only put up with shit for so long, I know I wouldn't take it for long. The assholes will be here forever, there's one guy still bitching at Roseman and throwing around all sorts of accusations 2 weeks after he left! Appreciate what you've got while it's here. Uncle Ben, you are a great resource, thanks for your time. I'm paying close attention.

UB would u mind telling all of us what products u DO use/approve of ?

so far i have gathered the following products but what else do u use? and do you follow directions on the label?

Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro
Blossom Booster
wal mart 4.95 plant food.
spin out

After voicing your opinion like they are facts, i think it is only fair that your methods be tested, and that you provide the info on your techniques... Otherwise what is the point in all of this talk?

no disrespect, just real questions.

I'll have to come back and read through this later.....

I see the same type of discussions in the gym all the time. Guys think they need to load up on protein despite the fact that the Average American consumes several times the protein that the body can use. The same goes with most other vitamins and all the other snake oil you see in the health food stores.

Anyway, guys spend hundreds of dollars on crap that is stuff everyone gets from normal food. Anyone hear of "Airborne" or "5 hour energy"? All it is is vitamins.

Plants need the macro-nutrients N-P-K in quality form. They also need a number of micro-nutrients. This really isn't that complicated and I would think many fertilizers with good reputations and proven track records would know how to accomplish this. As far as I know, there are no plant steroids or miracle foods. It is a simple matter of the right stuff in the right proportions. Just like good Human nutrition is a simple matter of eating the right foods.

I really believe that once the basic required nutrients are provided in quality form and the right combination, that is all there is to it. I highly doubt the process of creating a well balanced fertilizer is anything like making a $1,200 bottle of cognac.

Ah.... after reading the entire thread....... Uncle Ben is absolutely correct in all respects, no apologies for the bluntness about it, but it is simple scientific fact...... and the leap from noob to experienced competent grower is researching the science behind the methods and materials, understand the general practices, and practice, with practice comes a firmer understanding of the plant and their specific desires...... AN is definitely not in any way a preferred line of nutes for me..... I have never used it never will........ Still haven't found Nutes that are completely satisfactory for me plants..... thats why I stick with soils .......

Hey Uncle Ben

LOVE your advice, and have read all your threads

I learned from you to read gardening forums and that's where I got my soil mix

I learned from you about Jacks Classic (the only nutes I'm using) $4.99 for an 8oz tub

The plant in the photo is 3 weeks into flowering and has had only one feeding with Jacks Bloom

Thank you Uncle Ben for spreading "the TRUTH" in the face of adversity

RickWhite said:

I see the same type of discussions in the gym all the time. Guys think they need to load up on protein despite the fact that the Average American consumes several times the protein that the body can use. The same goes with most other vitamins and all the other snake oil you see in the health food stores.

Anyway, guys spend hundreds of dollars on crap that is stuff everyone gets from normal food. Anyone hear of "Airborne" or "5 hour energy"? All it is is vitamins.

Plants need the macro-nutrients N-P-K in quality form. They also need a number of micro-nutrients. This really isn't that complicated and I would think many fertilizers with good reputations and proven track records would know how to accomplish this. As far as I know, there are no plant steroids or miracle foods. It is a simple matter of the right stuff in the right proportions. Just like good Human nutrition is a simple matter of eating the right foods.

I really believe that once the basic required nutrients are provided in quality form and the right combination, that is all there is to it. I highly doubt the process of creating a well balanced fertilizer is anything like making a $1,200 bottle of cognac.

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As I would understand UB's posts, I'd say BINGO! Yes, that's the point, monitor the needs and provide as required. Simple enough.