Advanced Nutrients LIE on their labels...

Clown Baby said:

Maybe people don't understand you because you aren't typing coherently.

You need to read up on the nitrification cycle, though. Nitrosomas and nitrobacter turn ammonia into nitrite and then nitrate, respectively. It's a small detail so I don't really want to troll you on it, but plant-available forms of nitrogen aren't carbon based. Soil microflora eat the carbon based stuff and break it down to usable forms. Plants get carbon from CO2 through the stomata.

I agree with you that AN is overpriced. But that doesn't meat AN isn't a solid nutrient line. It's good stuff, albeit expensive. They do add a bunch of extra garbage besides the basic macro and micronutrients. Aminos,B vitamins etc. Now, whether the roots can even uptake much of the extra stuff through the caspian strip is a different story... Look at university studies on roots ability to uptake complex molecules like amino acids and it might make you think twice about buying the stuff. But some people choose to drive hondas and some people buy mercedes. They both get you from point A to point B

But kudos to you for typing coherent sentences. You get some +rep for that.

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i dont need to read it, you need to re read i think. the stuff you give as a so called organic isnt carbon till after. till then its nothin but bat shit or whatever it is. and the rest is all the same as posted already. dont get what your point is for repeating the same info but telling me to read.
and again you didnt read, i never said they sucked. we say they lie on amounts and labels..follow along dood. its more money for the same food. thats the point of all this thread.
and that stuff you say mayor may not work is why it cant be on the label. it cant be proven to work, thats why i wont waste my money on it

and 99.99999% of the stuff called organic and in a bottle isnt organic. same chemicals on the back.

aknight3 said:

i havent posted a grow onto this site in 2 years, and even my last grow (with auto flowers) was a 14 oz with a 600 watt lamp, so i say you dont know what your talking about, end of story. i bet just the buds in my tent right now are bigger than your entire plants, and thats a guarentee

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i wasnt hating on you man. if you pm me i will send you a link to my thread and help you any way i can. i dont know why people think my yields are unbelievable. thats only making my head bigger

Cannabisworks said:

i dont need to read it, you need to re read i think. the stuff you give as a so called organic isnt carbon till after. till then its nothin but bat shit or whatever it is. and the rest is all the same as posted already. dont get what your point is for repeating the same info but telling me to read.
and again you didnt read, i never said they sucked. we say they lie on amounts and labels..follow along dood. its more money for the same food. thats the point of all this thread.
and that stuff you say mayor may not work is why it cant be on the label. it cant be proven to work, thats why i wont waste my money on it

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Ok, I am clearly wrong. keep feeding your plants carbon-based nitrogen and don't let the haters tell you otherwise.

patrickkawi37 said:

i wasnt hating on you man. if you pm me i will send you a link to my thread and help you any way i can. i dont know why people think my yields are unbelievable. thats only making my head bigger

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im sorry if i took it offensivley, it came off the wrong way to me how you said it, i stand by my first post, i would love to see your setup if your getting 3lbs per 1k, i can only get about 2.4 or less per 1000, maybe its my strain?


and i have used AN's full lineup in the past, and i didnt really see any noticable increase in yield..

i have only done well with advanced and i havent wanted to try to switch to anything else because there is no reason to try anything else when im doing well with what i got. i have been averaging about 2.5 per 1k. my best is 2.9average. im sure i can top it when i get my veg dialed. i always have 1 light that doesnt look as good as the rest and it fucks my average. theres a link to my 4k thread at the bottom of this post but i have a new thread of this run posted in indoor . pm me if you still need a link

patrickkawi37 said:

i have only done well with advanced and i havent wanted to try to switch to anything else because there is no reason to try anything else when im doing well with what i got. i have been averaging about 2.5 per 1k. my best is 2.9average. im sure i can top it when i get my veg dialed. i always have 1 light that doesnt look as good as the rest and it fucks my average. theres a link to my 4k thread at the bottom of this post but i have a new thread of this run posted in indoor . pm me if you still need a link

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i checked it out and the 5200 watt as well, very nice man. i left a msg over there

Patrick are you talking about gram per watt or 2.9 yield? Is that with co2?

patrickkawi37 said:

i have only done well with advanced and i havent wanted to try to switch to anything else because there is no reason to try anything else when im doing well with what i got. i have been averaging about 2.5 per 1k. my best is 2.9average. im sure i can top it when i get my veg dialed. i always have 1 light that doesnt look as good as the rest and it fucks my average. theres a link to my 4k thread at the bottom of this post but i have a new thread of this run posted in indoor . pm me if you still need a link

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Nice. Thanks for sharing this information.

Good to see another AN grower's success and grow advice.

Go to google type in advanced nutrients Europe get on their site click on advancedipedia.

You know the AN line does work I run it and am very pleased with it. As far as my yield goes well I can tell ya all I yield this much or that much per watt but I see it meaningless yes I get very nice yields yes when I first started using AN I thought o crap here went a lot of money. But after calling AN for some pointers which they gladly give I was off and running. The lines not that complicated and with the ph perfect its even easier. I'm sure it's not for everyone as we can see, but let's face it if we look hard enough we can find dirt on almost anything we want. ive been running AN for three years with very good results and have no complaints.

I also run a plant or two with the GO line as well just to be able to have something organic if people ask and are concerned about it.
im not opposed to anything organic or synthetic they both have their pros and their cons you could say.

Clown Baby said:

Ok, I am clearly wrong. keep feeding your plants carbon-based nitrogen and don't let the haters tell you otherwise.

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your still lost dood. no food is carbon based till its eaten n shit by microbe. i use salts for better results. most isnt organic anyways even if the claim is and has omri. doesnt mean shit. i see why you dont get foods /..yo cat follow a post even

beuffer420 said:

Go to google type in advanced nutrients Europe get on their site click on advancedipedia.

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ya run to europe cause hes being shit down here for all his cons....lol, only place left he can legaly sell.

Cannabisworks said:

your still lost dood. no food is carbon based till its eaten n shit by microbe. i use salts for better results. most isnt organic anyways even if the claim is and has omri. doesnt mean shit. i see why you dont get foods /..yo cat follow a post even

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yo cat follow a post even

lol..glad you bit mr clown

I'd be interested to hear an explanation of "carbon-based nitrogen".

Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all three composed only of nitrogen and oxygen or hydrogen atoms. There's no carbon. It doesn't seem to me that either side is referring to organic sources as the definition of "carbon-based nitrogen", but correct me if I'm wrong on that.

My biochemistry may be a little rusty, but I believe the functional difference in the forms of nitrogen as far as we're concerned with have to do mainly with the charge, the polarization of the molecules that allow it to be handled by the roots of the plants - or not. Plants prefer nitrates (NO3) but it's actually beneficial to provide more than one form of Nitrogen as the different forms encourage different types of growth.


The big issue is that many fertilizer companies still run off decades-old formulas for fertilizers that haven't been updated with our current knowledge of plant biology. The ratios are wrong (like having way too much phosphorus) and many use urea-based forms of nitrogen that are just fine if there's a soil web to break them down (the nitrosomonas and nitrobacter Clown mentioned), but are completely useless to plants in hydroponics that don't have those microbes to do the extra work. The few companies that are running appropriate formulas often haven't done the extra research to determine exactly which forms and in which ratios are best for promoting the type of plant growth we really want to see when growing indoors (short, bushy, etc.)

There's a lot to it.

But if someone can clear up what the "carbon-based nitrogen" being talked about is all about, that'd help me out.

aeroman said:

I'd be interested to hear an explanation of "carbon-based nitrogen".

Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all three composed only of nitrogen and oxygen or hydrogen atoms. There's no carbon. It doesn't seem to me that either side is referring to organic sources as the definition of "carbon-based nitrogen", but correct me if I'm wrong on that.

My biochemistry may be a little rusty, but I believe the functional difference in the forms of nitrogen as far as we're concerned with have to do mainly with the charge, the polarization of the molecules that allow it to be handled by the roots of the plants - or not. Plants prefer nitrates (NO3) but it's actually beneficial to provide more than one form of Nitrogen as the different forms encourage different types of growth.


The big issue is that many fertilizer companies still run off decades-old formulas for fertilizers that haven't been updated with our current knowledge of plant biology. The ratios are wrong (like having way too much phosphorus) and many use urea-based forms of nitrogen that are just fine if there's a soil web to break them down (the nitrosomonas and nitrobacter Clown mentioned), but are completely useless to plants in hydroponics that don't have those microbes to do the extra work. The few companies that are running appropriate formulas often haven't done the extra research to determine exactly which forms and in which ratios are best for promoting the type of plant growth we really want to see when growing indoors (short, bushy, etc.)

There's a lot to it.

But if someone can clear up what the "carbon-based nitrogen" being talked about is all about, that'd help me out.

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carbon basred is after the microbes eat the organic matter and shit it out. when they shit it then it has added carbon or a plant cant eat it, other wise they could eat raw bat shit and so on as we give it to them...and they cant. wrong form, no salt or carbon in it yet for it to be plant food yet. its still microbe food basicly. 99.99999% of the so called organic in a liquid form in a bottle isnt organic at all. its still a chem salt if they looked at the gauranteed analysus, havin omri stamp on the bottle doesnt make it organic or any better than any other nute bottle. they are all organic based as all food comes from earth sea or air. makes them all organic to a point. funny so many dont see that whent hey mix the food and see reg ppm in the nute rez...real organics dont register as it isnt a salt/carbon yet. the plant also provides the carbon.
yes their is fincionality with a chare but is a whole diff subkject. plants only uptake me charges and is what ph buffered means with nutes and mediums. man think it measn we dont need to ph anything..all it means is possitive and negative are bufered or ballanced to resist change when mixed...or the nutes wouldnt work at all. the carbomn or salt is more how easy it passes through roots membranes and how they pass through. diff forms dont relay promote diff growth, they all change from whatever our bottle is to the same form to be eaten by a plant. thats why organic...real organic..is so slow. wrong forms so it has to be changed by fungi and microbe to the right one and also within the plant/...like when they cheep out and use eurea as their form. plant dot like that so has be changed
and realy ratios arent all that important as long as it isnt supressing other ellements. plants uptake what they want and leave any extras. they why so many burn and have ph issues. over fed a certain ellement and it blocks others so the plant hgets deff and burns from lack of food. ...most call it over feeding but you cant force them to over eat, they send oerages back to the medium as a starch and thats what messes shit up. plants cant be overfed...only mediums can

advanced is the cleanest source...but yet they use the worst nitro...lol. and everyone uses the same for the rest. their is only 1 periodic tabe so hw can his be any more clean than joes down the road. eurea is eurea no matter what fancy pic is on a label. only a salesman will say its better. or those tat dont get foods....no offence either. took me years to learn that

WHy is UREA bad if there is a way to metabolize it and in a small ratio to ammoniacal/nitrate N ?

i dont mean bad as in it may make a plant sick or kill it...its just slower being it has to be changed to a different form and its hi availability of nitrogen makes it mess with other ellements being avail or not cause it builds up around thew roots to block other foods, and is hard to flush out when you want to harvest. each form of nitrogen also has its own N/P/K to them. means how strong it is, urea has the highest so you could call it the most salty form of food..we dot even like over salted foods to eat. look at ratios of other ellements on any company that uses it as its nitrogen source, then look at a good nitrate source ratio.

look at it like if you hadnt eaten for a week and theres 2 plates of food, one you can eat right now and other you have to wait till tomorrow. what would you chose?. pants dont like waiting either