Adding deep & far reds to Quantum Board build

[mahiluana]

absolutely no need for hot water

OK. - think about - if you ever have to move to Canada

 

[SSGrower]

OK. - think about - if you ever have to move to Canada

We probably couldn't sellnhim a bag of sand either! Seems that his only benifit would be to perhaps removing the heat from the room with a few less watts, but the extra initial cost of the build dosent seem to make sense in this situation, perhaps just a little nighttime temp control. Would be nice if threre were some other way to extract the heat energy from the hot water he dosn't need.

 

[mahiluana]

sellnhim a bag of sand

Sorry - in a water flooded world - that`s NOT a bad buisness idea.

but the extra initial cost

nooh --- it is incredibly cheaper - if you buy the same chips and driver -
the heatsink makes the difference.

for a watercooled build 5KW - i spent as low as 150$ - with a better cooling result.
10m of aluminium square tube, fittings, pumps and hose
a heatexchanger 800L is not cheap if you buy a new one.

a basic version works only with a huge water container (you can get for free)
with 5 waterpumpies (2,4w each) you can manage the heat.

So i see lower set-up and maintanance cost for a watercooled build.

i know, that my girl and i need ~ 30000L of hot water / year
and normally have to pay ~250$ for the hot water bill to the house owner.

so 2700000KW @Toohighmf of hot water in my town is worth ~ 360000,- US$

Now a 350w watercooled led lamp in my household produces 80L / day
and the savings on my hot water bill is 50% of the electricity bill that produces my lamp.

I`M NOT SCOTTISH - I live in a country where prices for energy are high

 

[Schalalala]

I live in a country where prices for energy are high

... but health care is free, so why don't you go to the doctor and get your head checked?
I mean, why do you post such bullshit?

I say: heat power = ~ 0.75 * If * Vf and I can recover 80% of this heat, whatever the brand or bin...even @ low current they all produce 70-80% heat.

Just leave the numbers away if you're not able to calculate or understand physics.

 

[SSGrower]

Sorry - in a water flooded world - that`s NOT a bad buisness idea.



nooh --- it is incredibly cheaper - if you buy the same chips and driver -
the heatsink makes the difference.

for a watercooled build 5KW - i spent as low as 150$ - with a better cooling result.
10m of aluminium square tube, fittings, pumps and hose
a heatexchanger 800L is not cheap if you buy a new one.

a basic version works only with a huge water container (you can get for free)
with 5 waterpumpies (2,4w each) you can manage the heat.

So i see lower set-up and maintanance cost for a watercooled build.

i know, that my girl and i need ~ 30000L of hot water / year
and normally have to pay ~250$ for the hot water bill to the house owner.

so 2700000KW @Toohighmf of hot water in my town is worth ~ 360000,- US$

Now a 350w watercooled led lamp in my household produces 80L / day
and the savings on my hot water bill is 50% of the electricity bill that produces my lamp.

I`M NOT SCOTTISH - I live in a country where prices for energy are high

I get what you're saying but he already has the other system in place, if going new or expanding then sure, but the equipment he has still owes him money.
The cost of initial infrastructure isn't all that much greater for water cooler led but there is also other transitional costs related to method and getting dialed in that we can't account for.

There is also a difference between cost and value, just cause a calculator says the heat is worth xXxX if the heat is not needed it doesn't have the value necessary to offset the cost.

 

[mahiluana]

4.500.000KW and you could rewin 2.700.000KW of heat in the next 7 years

Sorry - my personal calculator smoked too much weed yesterday

the correct numbers for 50000h are:

250.000KW of total electr. input
---> 150.000KW of heat power
---> equivalent in MY household only 20.000 US$

 

[mahiluana]

he already has the other system in place

i know - but my posts are also an advice to everybody
watercooled light + heat cogeneration will be the future in an energy efficient world.
i`m shure because i practicise

to heat a building with electricity will become a common way to substitute oil and gas heating,
as fast as renewable electricity power production grows......climate change is not a joke...
the desaster produced by agricultural industries is not a joke...
and watercooled led light a simple,cheap, smart and powerfull tool and trouble shooter for both.

 

[mahiluana]

QUOTE="Schalalala, post: 14023571, member: 952912"]bullshit?[/QUOTE]

you are a little german nazi boy and a sick puppy

10 of your 30 posts are insulting response on my post

why don`t you go back to your "home-forum" grower.ch
and share your sick posts over there with the other 13,5 sick nazi puppies[ ???



Thermal Management of Cree XLamp® LEDs
Heat generation

To be conservative, assume LEDs convert 25% of the input
power to light and output 75% of the input power as heat. This estimate varies depending on current density, brightness and component,
but is a good estimate for thermal design. Equation 1 below shows how to calculate the thermal power.
Pt = 0.75 Vf If
Equation 1: Thermal power calculation
where:
Pt is the thermal power (W)
Vf is the forward voltage of the LED (V)
If is the source current to the LED (A)
The Vf and If can be measured directly or calculated from the PCT, so the thermal power can easily be calculated. This is the amount of
power the system/heat sink must dissipate.

 

[Schalalala]

Yeah, if you are not able to properly determine the the efficacy of your LED (based on LER and QER -> Search for "The Math behind"), than you have to do crappy assumptions.
(We are already beyond the 60 % mark for efficacy for phosphor converted LEDs. You don't spend much time in this forum, do you?)
My problem with you isn't that you promote watercooling, my problem is, that you give stupid advices to others, like removing the aluminium between the water and your LEDs (get a book and read how heat transfer works!) or promote cheap LEDs (like @grower.ch), even though you are clearly not able to distinguish between a good or a bad LED....

 

[Toohighmf]

It’s not just higher upfront costs. 19’-8”l x 9’-6”t x 7”-8w” isn’t a lot of room to produce and have to maintain in. Maybe I’m misunderstanding exactly what you water coolers are doing. Running a closed loop from a separate reservoir with a chiller, glycol & coil or radiator, (unless it’s freezing outside) and pump, no?

We were already considering using evaporative chillers for climate control, but I’d love to read more about how to use the existing system climate control to water cool these lights

We probably couldn't sellnhim a bag of sand either! Seems that his only benifit would be to perhaps removing the heat from the room with a few less watts, but the extra initial cost of the build dosent seem to make sense in this situation, perhaps just a little nighttime temp control. Would be nice if threre were some other way to extract the heat energy from the hot water he dosn't need.

 

[SSGrower]

It’s not just higher upfront costs. 19’-8”l x 9’-6”t x 7”-8w” isn’t a lot of room to produce and have to maintain in. Maybe I’m misunderstanding exactly what you water coolers are doing. Running a closed loop from a separate reservoir with a chiller, glycol & coil or radiator, (unless it’s freezing outside) and pump, no?

We were already considering using evaporative chillers for climate control, but I’d love to read more about how to use the existing system climate control to water cool these lights

It’s not just higher upfront costs. 19’-8”l x 9’-6”t x 7”-8w” isn’t a lot of room to produce and have to maintain in. Maybe I’m misunderstanding exactly what you water coolers are doing. Running a closed loop from a separate reservoir with a chiller, glycol & coil or radiator, (unless it’s freezing outside) and pump, no?

We were already considering using evaporative chillers for climate control, but I’d love to read more about how to use the existing system climate control to water cool these lights

Take this as an example only, here is basicaly what you describe as a typicall water cooling system.

https://gs-horti.com/products/led-grow-lights/aquabar.html

As you say you still have to have the chiller unless you have another way to remove the heat like alternating the day and night cycles of 2 grow grow spaces a and b. One acts as a heatsink for the other. That dosent really work in your locale since the outside temps are so high.

For cob style leds typical operating temps are lower than boiling so something like an indirect fired water heater makes sence for something to replace the chiller in the system above. As you point out ,you only need hot water to wash your hands, so on the scale your talking thats not enough btus needed to meet cooling needs.

Hence my statement about selling you a bag of sand, as I image you have plenty of it. I like to think of it as water heat managment instead of water cooling, my goal is to store the heat and recover it when and where I need it. I'll also admit it dosent make sense in every situation.

 

[mahiluana]

using evaporative chillers

The huge amount of heat energy they are able to sink is a result of the
evaporation energy of water 2441J / g
This is 1 L / 0,68 KW of heat power
or in a 5KW lamp system ~ 100L / ~ 68KW / day

if you have free water and using an existing airflow - you don`t need much additional electricity for cooling (power of the pumps ~3W) - and the water reservoir can be much smaller (40L)

!!! Inside aircondition systems you will always need desinfection against salmonella and others - from time to time !!!

 

[mahiluana]

what you describe as a typicall water cooling system.

my definition of a typical watercooled set up - is a closed water loop in a square aluminium tube.
You don`t need expensive heat sinks and fans - water hoses and little pumps are much cheaper.

Prices for industrial brands like the link above are mostly pretty expensive and imo not worth the value.

But watercooled DIY systems can offer cheap, individual design...with the most efficient heat management - not only for your chips...
---> Tj of your chips = water temp. + ~5°C..

to store the heat and recover it when and where I need it

...but also for your grow room.

That dosent really work in your locale since the outside temps are so high.

@Toohighmf i klicked on the link in your profile and found this:

is this your local ? and don`t you have low temps. during the night ?
- or is it a joking fake

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hindukusch/@36.8910871,73.2552704,1619m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x38c264c5e08e1b37:0xb283fc048bbe985b!2sHindukusch!3b1!8m2!3d36.8922222!4d73.2633333!3m4!1s0x38c264c5e08e1b37:0xb283fc048bbe985b!8m2!3d36.8922222!4d73.2633333

19’-8”l x 9’-6”t x 7”-8w” isn’t a lot of room

another advantage of watercooled lamps -
you can hang your chips very close to the ceiling - good for spaces with limited head room .

 

[Toohighmf]

That’s too funny! No I’m not growing on the 30th Parallel! I’m a Jew and American. Don’t think they’d like my passport...
I’m in SoCal, and the client is in the desert nearby. Peak heat is July-September and yes, it cools down pretty good at night to 95F! We want to build a room that can efficiently cool day or night. We will be blooming in 3 different 8 hour shifts so we need it to be able to withstand hi temps in the summer and freezing days of winter.

 

[Toohighmf]

Ps
I don’t understand how running a chiller large enough to cool roughly 16000 btus could EVER be as efficient as running 240w of in-line fans; both in up front costs or utilities.

That being said, Please share any diy wc links!

 

[Toohighmf]

OK. - think about - if you ever have to move to Canada

Ever have to? You mean get to! I can’t take it anymore!

 

[mahiluana]

withstand hi temps in the summer and freezing days of winter.

with the heat power stored in a watertank its much easier`to keep the room cool during light cycle -
(you need less incoming air (and water) for your plants, less fan power and carbon filter.)

how running a chiller large enough to cool roughly

you can bring back the heat to your room during the night, as your lampbody is also a perfect radiator - temps. and humidity are easier to manage.

Please share any diy wc links

https://www.rollitup.org/search/64892256/?q=watercooled&o=date


this was the cooling management of my first watercooled prototype (330W)
i had to add 4-5L of water / day to compense the evaporisation
and rise easiely air humidity to veg in the grow room.
(less)hot and dry incoming air in a hot summer desert day could be conditioned quickly and "free".

the cooling tower in my drawing above ^ is a simple U-pipe with a wet curtain inside and airflow,
and can suck out your btus as quick as your size of airflow and curtain(surface).

 

[SSGrower]

That’s too funny! No I’m not growing on the 30th Parallel! I’m a Jew and American. Don’t think they’d like my passport...
I’m in SoCal, and the client is in the desert nearby. Peak heat is July-September and yes, it cools down pretty good at night to 95F! We want to build a room that can efficiently cool day or night. We will be blooming in 3 different 8 hour shifts so we need it to be able to withstand hi temps in the summer and freezing days of winter.

Been talkin to torotoke have you? 8hr flower?

Ps
I don’t understand how running a chiller large enough to cool roughly 16000 btus could EVER be as efficient as running 240w of in-line fans; both in up front costs or utilities.

That being said, Please share any diy wc links!

If im visualising and remembering properly, you still have ac units running to cool the area in addition to the 240w of fans running cool tubes? The only way it would work is if you no longer had to run the room ac, or dich the chiller (which dosent seem to be a viable option for you, but others like me that have to constanly add heat to the lower ambient temps a radiator works, no chiller needed.)

 

[SSGrower]

with the heat power stored in a watertank its much easier`to keep the room cool during light cycle -
(you need less incoming air (and water) for your plants, less fan power and carbon filter.)



you can bring back the heat to your room during the night, as your lampbody is also a perfect radiator - temps. and humidity are easier to manage.



https://www.rollitup.org/search/64892256/?q=watercooled&o=date

View attachment 4077774
this was the cooling management of my first watercooled prototype (330W)
i had to add 4-5L of water / day to compense the evaporisation
and rise easiely air humidity to veg in the grow room.
(less)hot and dry incoming air in a hot summer desert day could be conditioned quickly and "free".

the cooling tower in my drawing above ^ is a simple U-pipe with a wet curtain inside and airflow,
and can suck out your btus as quick as your size of airflow and curtain(surface).

He's 95 F at night so he has to have a way to get below that, perhaphs could do it with something like am10,000 gallon under ground tank, but agiain he's in a desert so 10,000 gallons of water might be more valuabe than electricity to cool. @Toohighmf your location is making this difficult for us, would your client consider moving?

 

[SSGrower]

With aquaponics

https://www.rollitup.org/t/water-cooling-using-aquaponics-tank.937003/#post-13431375