A/C vs. IceBox & Water Chiller
- Thread starter jnyce1320
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Greenspace
Member
Good question. I have been thinking of this lately too after having watched the Hydro Innovations video.
Although the idea of using water sounds very cool, it seem to me that some of the efficiency is in fact lost in the process.
In case of using Air Conditioning to cool the air directly inside the room the compressor pumps freon (or other refrigerant) through the coils of evaporator (the cold radiator of ac unit, which does the same thing as the ice box) and the air is blown over the evaporator of ac and is cooled. Meaning the evaporator component of ac unit is functionally identical to Ice Box.
Now water cooled option:
Water chiller is effectively exactly the same thing as an air conditioner, except that its evaporator coils (through which exactly the same refrigerant is pumped by the same compressor) cools water it is submerged into, instead of directly cooling the air like in the air conditioner. And then there is another circuit, which moves this chilled water through another evaporator coil (aka in hydroponic water cooling context as "Ice Box"), which in turn cools the air, thus doing what evaporator coil of the same water cooler could have done just as well (or more effectively) if it had this air blown though it directly.
Water chiller setup involves a redundant circuit of water circulating through another evaporator coil. This adds another coil, lots of extra tubing and an extra water pump.
Overall, I would imagine, that the thermodynamic efficiency of water chiller and ice box is probably very close to that of an AC unit. But it is redundant and involves many unnecessary components (therefore: more things to break down).
Greenspace
Member
The claim that water cooling the grow room is more efficient than using air conditioning system seems groundless to me because the same exact method of heat removal is used in both cases, and water cooling involves more watts or energy used per btu of heat removed.
There is however one possible advantage of water cooling (I should say: utilizing refrigerant lines) to remove heat from grow room space. And that is the option of completely isolating the grow room with no air leaving it or coming in. This, however is only an advantage if water cooling is compared to window mounted A/C units. Split air conditioning units, aka: mini splits, heat pumps or ductless a/c do the same job but for far less money than complex and very expensive water chilled setups.
I am currently designing a sealed setup for a medical grower and will post updates and info.
There is however one possible advantage of water cooling (I should say: utilizing refrigerant lines) to remove heat from grow room space. And that is the option of completely isolating the grow room with no air leaving it or coming in. This, however is only an advantage if water cooling is compared to window mounted A/C units. Split air conditioning units, aka: mini splits, heat pumps or ductless a/c do the same job but for far less money than complex and very expensive water chilled setups.
I am currently designing a sealed setup for a medical grower and will post updates and info.
Greenspace
Member
I was pricing out some equipment and was amazed at price differential between water chillers and air conditioners of equivalent btu, ratings.
Then realized that most likely this difference is due to one part - titanium condenser (cooling coil) that has to be chemically non reactive to protect living organisms in aquariums that these chillers are designed for. In application where the water is used to merely cool the air and not to feed plants or cool a fish tank, this is useless.
I would use a different (proper) small water cooler for nutrient reservoir.
There are really cool
threads here on how to make an efficient water chiller from a $30 window ac unit.
As for sealed grow rooms:
Split air conditioning unit is the most efficient way to go, imo, for mid to lagre size ops. And for small grow rooms and grow tents either diy water chiller with ice box (which can easily be made from a cheap car heater core or radiator) is the way to go.
Mini splits start at 9000 btus which is enough to cool 2k watt setup and cost from $400 used to $1000 or so new. Installation is much easier than the specialists would have you beleive.
Good luck all.
Then realized that most likely this difference is due to one part - titanium condenser (cooling coil) that has to be chemically non reactive to protect living organisms in aquariums that these chillers are designed for. In application where the water is used to merely cool the air and not to feed plants or cool a fish tank, this is useless.
I would use a different (proper) small water cooler for nutrient reservoir.
There are really cool
threads here on how to make an efficient water chiller from a $30 window ac unit.As for sealed grow rooms:
Split air conditioning unit is the most efficient way to go, imo, for mid to lagre size ops. And for small grow rooms and grow tents either diy water chiller with ice box (which can easily be made from a cheap car heater core or radiator) is the way to go.
Mini splits start at 9000 btus which is enough to cool 2k watt setup and cost from $400 used to $1000 or so new. Installation is much easier than the specialists would have you beleive.
Good luck all.
Greenspace
Member
There is no difference between so called water called water cooled grow room setups and using air conditioning.
Although you are right about the thermodynamic properties of water, it is, however, of no relevance to this comparison, as in both cases heat absorption is performed by the same freon filler radiator of a chiller or ac unit.
Ice box does exactly the same thing as the air conditioner used directly in the room - it cools the air blown through it. And how much heat it is capable of absorbing is dependent completely and fully upon the btu rating of water chiller, which is functionally identical to ac.
Although you are right about the thermodynamic properties of water, it is, however, of no relevance to this comparison, as in both cases heat absorption is performed by the same freon filler radiator of a chiller or ac unit.
Ice box does exactly the same thing as the air conditioner used directly in the room - it cools the air blown through it. And how much heat it is capable of absorbing is dependent completely and fully upon the btu rating of water chiller, which is functionally identical to ac.
The one big difference that nobody has mentioned yet is power/amp draw. AC units use far more power. A 1/10 HP chiller can bring a 40 gallon reservoir down to 55 degrees in about 24 hours, while only drawing 150-200 watts of power, and around 2.2 amps. Once the res is at 55 degrees, the exhaust air should be no warmer than 75 degrees which is perfect. A 12,000 BTW AC unit draws around 11 amps and 1200 watts of power. After looking at all these numbers, an icebox setup seems far more efficient in my opinion. That's a very significant power savings.
B18sleeper420
Member
I have to agree I'd like to see an actual wattage/amperage comparison but to say that just using a 1/10 hp aquachiler is in any way comparable to a 12000 btu( 1 ton) ac unit is foolish. First of all the ac is directly cooling the air inside the room whereas the chiller just the reservoir. To add a icebox would require an inline hi output pump/ plumbing/manifold and the small chiller won't effectively cool the water to run one either
..The water pump is a decent amount of draw mixed with the required 2 ton chiller/1hp external pump/and 4-6 iceboxes. these numbers compared to say a 2 ton mini split ...(the new DC inverter ones use even less energy since the pump slows for requirements)....idk either way I think I'm going with the mini split ..... Just my .02
..The water pump is a decent amount of draw mixed with the required 2 ton chiller/1hp external pump/and 4-6 iceboxes. these numbers compared to say a 2 ton mini split ...(the new DC inverter ones use even less energy since the pump slows for requirements)....idk either way I think I'm going with the mini split ..... Just my .02Todesengel
Member
I'm gonna throw the BS flag right here. I have a 1/4hp JBJ Artica chiller, and they are not designed to cool below 20 degrees below ambient. Infact, most 1/10hp to 1/3hp can only cool 20-25degrees below ambient RUNNING THE COMPRESSOR 24/7! I spoke with JBJ tech support and they informed me that in any low end chiller, the compressors is a tropical compressor and not a cold water compressor. Using a low end chiller is not efficient in ANYWAY possible.
I am running an 8" Icebox, an 700cfm fan, 50gallon cooling res, and the 1/4hp chiller. With my 1000w bulb, ambient temps in my sealed 7x7 closet hit 81 degress with 85% RH. Keep in mind the chiller compressor was running 24/7 too.
Long story short, I am ditching the icebox for a portable AC unit and I will just have to deal with the c02 loss through the venting. Unless I can find a 3/4hp chiller for cheap somewhere, but I don't think its gonna happen.
uhavealighter?
Active Member
Get a split a/c unit. those wont exchange air and do not require any ducting. Heres a 12,000 btu split a/c unit for $1000. https://rasahydroponics.com/climate-control/air-conditioners/aura-mini-split-air-conditioners
Boyz N Da Hood
Well-Known Member
Interesting info here fosho!
phillipchristian
New Member
Check this thread out
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/511767-water-cooled-grow-rooms.html
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/511767-water-cooled-grow-rooms.html
Boyz N Da Hood
Well-Known Member
Interesting info here fosho!
phillipchristian
New Member
Seems a little pricey to me for a 1hp EcoPlus. All these people doing water cooling are just using the application wrong. That guy you quoted actually stated in his post why it wasn't working. He had a 1/4hp chiller with a 50 gallon reservoir. He would be a lot more efficient with a 25 gallon reservoir on a chiller that small. He said he had a 1000w light with 1 Ice Box. If you stick an Ice Box on a 1000w light then you will cool the exhaust from the light but not the ambient room temps or the heat created by dehumidifiers, pumps, ballasts, etc... For every Ice Box you have you need a 1/4hp of chilling.
budleydoright
Well-Known Member
Water cooled can be much more effecient, but it does have to be done properly and at a certain scale to be worth doing.
build one out of a window ac. a 6000btu is about 1/2 hp but will do it. Of course it will also do the room bare bulb if there's enough volume in there.
Shrubs First
Well-Known Member
Water is 9x more absorbant of heat than air, and can hold 20x more of the energy.
KI11TH3W3AK
Active Member
depends on what type of water cooling u are doing in my area humidity stays hella low so swamp cooler style coolers work amazing and are way energy efficient its just a fan...a small example of this is vicks cool air humidifier its $20 lol just depends on your area
budleydoright
Well-Known Member
But you can't run a co2 enriched sealed room with an evaporative cooler.