5x5 LED - T-Time grow time

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
The space for the upper level is till the ceiling and the lower level have all the way up till the top of the upper pots.
Plants measure 30cm now. They have still 45cm to go as each level have 75cm of space to grow.
I'm planning the stretch to be around 2x . At least thats the info I've found about this strain. First time growing it so fongers crossed ;)
If you flip today, top shelf ladies will be past the filter in a month......

Good luck: )
 

T-Time

Well-Known Member
If you flip today, top shelf ladies will be past the filter in a month......

Good luck: )
Thanks man.
I think You are right! I forgot about the initiation phase.
Flip today.

Bumped nutes to 1300PPM and PH 5.5 and light to 600W. Finally connected flower initiators so after the 12h day they will be on for 15min every day.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Flip away! As a rough guide, hybrids will double during the first couple of weeks of stretch, but the buds will still keep growing after that. Yours look pretty indica, so they may not stretch as much. They're getting a lot of light, so that will also help keep them compact. But I agree with PSUAGRO that you're going to get faster growth with a hydro style grow than soil alone.

Speaking of which, you're getting a lot of water flow through those channels, yes? I usually use a starting pH of around 5.7/5.8, but 5.5 is fine. Sativas seem to like a slightly lower pH compared to indicas. If your pH isn't really rising or falling, that's no biggie - you'll probably notice it move more once the plants start relying more on their water/nutrient feed than on the nutrients in the pot/media. In a pure hydro system, pH obviously rises because the plants are feeding and taking nutrient out of solution, so EC slowly falls while pH slowly rises. It's the big swings you have to watch for, notably when pH falls.

I can see some very, very minor tip burn starting to emerge on some of your leaves, so just keep an eye on that as far as nutrient levels go. The problem with running a hybrid soil/hydro set-up is you can never quite be sure how much nutrient there is in the media. So don't forget to top-flush your pots with plain water every now and then to prevent a build-up of salts in the pots. Just run plain water through them to flush them and change out your nutrient tank with fresh nutrient solution every couple of weeks - try not to let it go much more than that.

Apart from that, they're all looking really good! LIke I said, that mutant (variegated leaf) plant will probably grow out of it as it gets bigger. It may not grow as vigorously as all the others, but you might be surprised by the final product. Sometimes the mutants end up being more potent than the others.
 

T-Time

Well-Known Member
Thanks Prawn Connery. I'll keep that in mind.

There is hardly any flow on the upper gutter and no flow on the lover one. I'm thinking how to fix that but I'll most likely fit a bigger outlet and a dam so water would stay on the right level and flow down to the tank freely.
If only I could aeriate the water without making any noise , I would skip the soil and jump right it to UCDWC. I can see now big advantages that it has.
But, but.... will see how this system works first :)
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Thanks Prawn Connery. I'll keep that in mind.

There is hardly any flow on the upper gutter and no flow on the lover one. I'm thinking how to fix that but I'll most likely fit a bigger outlet and a dam so water would stay on the right level and flow down to the tank freely.
If only I could aeriate the water without making any noise , I would skip the soil and jump right it to UCDWC. I can see now big advantages that it has.
But, but.... will see how this system works first :)
Waterfalls don't have to make a lot of noise, they just gurgle a bit.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
If there's no flow, how does the water recirculate? You really need to recirculate and/or aerate that nutrient solution or you may risk root rot down the track. You don't want your roots sitting in stagnant water, or they will run out of oxygen.

As ttystikk says, a decent NFT system doesn't have to make a lot of noise. Simply pump your water to the top level, let it drain down to the lower level (using dams to level the water), and then let that drain back into the reservoir. The more recirculating movement you have, the more you break up the surface tension of the water to allow it to mix with the air. I honestly thought your system was already running like I've just described.
 

T-Time

Well-Known Member
My system works this way.
Pump no1 is flooming the water and has a venturi on it to oxygenate it even more. Pump no2 only recilculate the top level. Both inlet and outlet on that level are even in size and I had to restrict the flow as water level was getting too high and flooding the tent (slightly :p ).

20171015_170229.jpg

Please keep in mind I didn't plan it to be a hydro. It was usposed to be a SIP, so i didn't think about water roots at the time. Only now seeing how fast water roots develop I started to think about it more.
Making changes now would be difficult. So any changes would be done to the next run most likely. I've purchased Eheim 400LPH air pump (super quiet) with two outlets so I would be able to stick one line to the main container and the other one to the bottom level where there is no flow. I should add that I'm only limited to the noise in Veg. When flipped to 12/12 it's ok.

I would most likely have to add bigger float valve as the one I have is too slow to operate at the speed the pump would be circulating. Not enough flow through the valve would make the pump run dry.

So the next setup would look more like that.
20171015_172558.jpg
If I like the SIP thing...
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
You might be better off running this as a top drip drain to waste system with both channels draining into a common pan where a pump can just pump the runoff out.
Just be sure to use open hoses with no emitters to avoid clogs withe the FloraNova
 

T-Time

Well-Known Member
You might be better off running this as a top drip drain to waste system with both channels draining into a common pan where a pump can just pump the runoff out.
Just be sure to use open hoses with no emitters to avoid clogs withe the FloraNova
How do You want the water flow to the main tank if there is higher water level in it ?
I would have to rise the lower gutter above the water level to do so and its not really a option cause of the space limitations.
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
How do You want the water flow to the main tank if there is higher water level in it ?
I would have to rise the lower gutter above the water level to do so and its not really a option cause of the space limitations.
Don't return the water to the main tank. Set a shallower collection tray below the bottom gutter where all runoff collects and is pumped out of the space or into a bucket for disposal.
 

T-Time

Well-Known Member
Don't return the water to the main tank. Set a shallower collection tray below the bottom gutter where all runoff collects and is pumped out of the space or into a bucket for disposal.
Ahh sorry. I've missed "to waste" part.
Not interested. Don't like wasting stuff :P
Don't have a space for extra containers as well, it's already crowded in here 20171015_185450.jpg
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
Ahh sorry. I've missed "to waste" part.
Not interested. Don't like wasting stuff :P
Don't have a space for extra containers as well, it's already crowded in here View attachment 4027205
What i have found is you actually "waste" less nutrients when done properly. You are never dumping a whole reservoir on a weekly basis to replenish/correct ratio's in solution.
Plus you are constantly pushing the high ec's out of the media.
If you wanted to recirculate it you could have the top channel drain into the bottom channel and then a pump in the bottom channel sending it back to the reservoir.
Just some other ideas from a fellow hydro junkie :hump:
 

T-Time

Well-Known Member
What i have found is you actually "waste" less nutrients when done properly. You are never dumping a whole reservoir on a weekly basis to replenish/correct ratio's in solution.
Plus you are constantly pushing the high ec's out of the media.
If you wanted to recirculate it you could have the top channel drain into the bottom channel and then a pump in the bottom channel sending it back to the reservoir.
Just some other ideas from a fellow hydro junkie :hump:

Hahahha. Thanks buddy :D
There are no bad ideas here. Every input is much appraciated :)
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I understand now - the lower channel is below the level of the reservoir, so can't drain back. That is obvious now that I go back and look at your photos.

I like the run-to-waste-idea. Wonder where I saw that? Ah yes, post #15 :P

But seriously, you've got a few options:

Put a pump in the lower channel feeding the top back into the reservoir and maintained by the float valve. This is already working for you to an extent - you just have to add the pump - and you have already pointed out a couple of potential issues. It's a bit complicated, and the only thing I could add is the risk of the float valve becoming stuck open because you are running SIP and there is a lot of crap in your water (soilless media being pushed out the bottom of the pots by the roots/being washed into the channel by the water motion etc), so if a bit of dirt or something jams the valve open, you could flood your tent and eventually run both channels dry.

Air stones are a good idea: this just turns the lower channel into a shallow water culture set-up. Because the water isn't really being recirculated, you just have to make a bit more effort to change it out regularly (like, about every week or so).

Another option would be to raise the tent - get an old table and cut legs down (or something like that) - and have an external reservoir that is lower than the bottom channel (under the table) and pump to the top channel, then waterfall down to the bottom channel and back into the res. I don't know how feasible that is for you, so it's just an idea . . .

The last option is run-to-waste. Replace your air pots with normal pots. Fill them with pure coco. Put two or more spikes into each pot (always have more than one line going to each pot for redundancy, and in case one line gets blocked for whatever reason) fed by 4mm flexible irrigation line coming off a 1/2" main line fed by the reservoir pump. Put the pump on a timer - one minute, four times each 12-hour lights-on period (no flow during lights off). You will need a tap/valve to regulate the pump flow to the bottom channel, otherwise it will get most of the flow (gravity obviously acts against top flow). You'll work it out ;)

For drainage, you can get a length of any old 1/2"-3/4" garden hose and run it to a house drain, or outside, or into a shallow collector. Run-to-waste would be the bomb in your set-up, as you wouldn't have to change a thing (just add feed and drainage lines) and you will waste less nutrient solution than you do now. With RTW, you run your nutrient solution at a reduced rate (if your nutrients run 5ml per litre in a recirculating system, you run 3ml per litre in RTW etc), and you limit your runoff to around 10% of what goes in. In your current set-up, that reservoir would last about two weeks or so - which is the same as replacing it every two weeks (except with less nutrient going in).

No-one likes the idea of RTW when they first hear it, but the reality is it's a very efficient system. You can even recycle your waste runoff by using it to water your veg or flower garden outside. I have run lots of different systems over the years, from DWC, to NFT, to RTW, and run-to-waste was the easiest and most reliable.
 

T-Time

Well-Known Member
I think it's all about the compromise we are willing to give up. Using less nutes isnt really a big problem here as its only one bottle of FloraNova. Its cheap compared to whole BioBizz line of nutes.

Rising the tent is a awsome idea. I really like it , but top of the tent is used for storage so I'm not sure I would be able to pull it off.
If I would I would rather keep recirculating nutes and keep the pump behing some kind of filter (DIY ofc :D )
Found a nice diagram for Your suggested setup.
satellite_system_popup.gif

Running my setup as a sip is very safe as when the pump will die, my ladies won't.
I will defo will be thinking about it as there is always next big thing for me. Its stopping me becoming a good grower as I change too much every time but heck, it is fun as hell :hump:
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
The beauty of RTW coco is if you have a pump failure (more likely a timer failure - I've had a few of those over the years), the coco still retains it's moisture and you don't lose your crop. It would be just as reliable as your hybrid SIP system is now.

All you would really need to raise your tent is an old table and cut the legs down - like a Japanese table - and put your reservoir underneath, or off to one side. As long as the top of the res is equal to or lower than the lowest channel outlet, you're good to go. I'm guessing you'd need about 1.5-2' of head space to do it.
 

T-Time

Well-Known Member
I'll be thinking about it.

Whitch one did give You best results (faster growth and bigger yeld) ? RTW or RDWC ?


I did another mod in the tent today. New fans arrived so I put them together and wrapped mesh around them. Each fan is 230mm (9") and theres 4 of them. They are low profile and not in an lights way. 4 of them consume only 16W ! :)

I did some training yesterday but some of it didnt went to the plan :( Snapped some branches. Managed to rescue some with duct tape but one or two didn't make it. I should of started with LST way earlier when they were softer. Ah well live and learn ...
 

Attachments

T-Time

Well-Known Member
Came home today only to find out that light were off for 4 hours :/ I pulled out a plug accidently checking on them earlier in the morning.

Anyways.... ladies are looking good. Still showing plenty of vigor. Few of the brocken branches didn't affect it too much and survived my lousy LST. I'm doing my best managing them and keeping the branches count under 12.
Cound someone chime in when is the best time to stop cutting off new growth to stop it from branching? I usually would stop around 2 weeks mark from flip OR as soon they'll start showing white pistils. I'm done with trimming 30 branches off not exactly what you would call a donkey dick plant :P
Just want to check if my technique is correct.

PH slightly fell down to 5.65 so I've adjusted it back to 5.85.
PPM is still @1300-1320
Lights stay pretty cool @22*C set @600w
20171020_143337.jpg 20171020_143823.jpg
 
Last edited:

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Looking good mate. I got my most consistent results with RTW coco. DWC was arguably quicker (not by much), but more prone to heat issues. I couldn't grow DWC in the summer here - it was just too hot, with the risk of root rot once water temps neared 30C (couldn't be arsed with res chillers) - so I switched to coco and never looked back. Coco is technically hydro - as opposed to soilless - as it's mostly inert. In any case, reliability beats speed in my books.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Looking good mate. I got my most consistent results with RTW coco. DWC was arguably quicker (not by much), but more prone to heat issues. I couldn't grow DWC in the summer here - it was just too hot, with the risk of root rot once water temps neared 30C (couldn't be arsed with res chillers) - so I switched to coco and never looked back. Coco is technically hydro - as opposed to soilless - as it's mostly inert. In any case, reliability beats speed in my books.
Hydro has nothing to do with the substrate, by definition it refers to how you're introducing nutrients to your plants. If you put the nutes in the substrate and add water, it's not hydro. If you put nutrients in your water and feed the plants with the nutrient solution, it's hydro- no matter what the substrate might be. I'm a stickler for proper definitions because without them it's too easy to get confused.

I agree with your post here in all other respects, especially the part about keeping DWC cool. Before I chilled my RDWC I had problems no matter what I did. After I chilled my water I never had problems again, even when I intentionally introduced water that I knew had root rot pathogens in it.
 
Top