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400w Coco Perpetual Grow

Discussion in 'Grow Journals' started by StickyTreez, Jul 6, 2013.


    StickyTreez Member


    Started my small medical grow a few years ago and decided to keep a journal/share it with you guys!

    Nothing special or big, starts off in the veg room where i have an LED (~180w) babies start off in rapid rooters then they move to Coco in solo cups and after they get big and established they are transplanted to 2 liters, and after they get big enough and established more finally move to flowering room.
    Coco and the long veg period seems to be causing salt issues so ill be changing up my routine and ill start feeding with my worm farm (might do a post on that later) But i digress.....

    Flowering room consists of a 400w HPS and plants in 2 liters/coco. Currently im using Maxibloom for nutrients works decently but ill be changing to Jacks probably after it runs dry.
    Two fans keeping mold and heat at bay since its just in a closet.

    Strains: GranDaddy Purp, Original Sour Diesel (cali connection), white russian (serious seeds), chocolate rain (sannies/breeders choice), Killing Fields (sannis), Blue Diesel (sannies), Darkstar (freebie), Soliliqueen (dynasty)
    Might have 1 or 2 others.

    Got some KalimistXBubble Gum (serious) that im itching to pop too :P Love me those sativas.

    Lol in the 4 or 5 years ive been growing never weighed it so dont know how i do harvesting but i suppose its decent for a 400w.
    But i do give only water for last 1-2 week and hang the whole plant to dry (lol people seem to argue that alot on here it seems)

    If anyone grows Flood and Drain id love some input, plan on doing a SOG 2'x2' tray with net pots, and Sunleaves Rocks (expanded silica, similar to higromite)

    Oh and ill tell you the secret to growing..... have a furry friend to help and eat old leaves ;]

    Attached Files:


    LakesideWiseman Member

    Rather than go ebb/flow, have you though about adding more perlite, hydroton, or grostones to the coco, and doing a drip system? It doesn't look like you've got a whole lot of aeration in there, but I could be wrong. I have yet to have any problems with coco and salt build up, but I don't ever let the coco dry out (I'm using open ended drip tubing on for 2-5 mins 1-5 times per day depending if they can suck it all up). It's the drying out that seems to be the culprit for most, at least from what I've seen around the net, also not doing enough waste at every watering. 20% is a general rule, but I've been getting by with much less at times. A good flush every few weeks with plain water never hurt anything either. I've been growing much less time than you though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    On a side note, how have you liked the Cali Connection genetics? I've heard great things but you seem to have quite a bit of experience with various companies so I'd like your input. I'm mostly interested in consistency within packs, and overall potency/quality/yield.

    Looking good bud! Keep blazin'!

    StickyTreez Member

    Thanks for the thoughts/comments! Ironically iv had problems with the coco being too WET lol. Got fungus gnats at one point and ive been trying to let the coco get 'almost' dry.

    Ill look into drip havent really thought about it actually, and i settled on Sunleaves after considering lots of mediums because:
    Its pretty much inert, doesnt hold salts like coco (although that can be a good thing), doesnt float (although in a drip system i could go perlite) and its easy to wash/rinse.

    Ideally id like to reuse it as well. Do you reuse coco? Ive seen people on both sides of the fence but ive been hesitant.

    Cali Connection- Got the beans free when i ordered some Serious Seeds. Ive heard mixed reviews on Cali Connection though but this is my first time growing out their genetics so well see.....
    But im a fan of Sannies (killing fields is one of my fav) and his friends stuff (breeder,dynasty) Although i prefer to order from attitude seeds than sannies website directly.
    Heard only great things about Serious Seeds though so thats why im trying out their White Russian.

    LakesideWiseman Member

    I run 50/50 coco/hydroton, making overwatering a hard task imo. I think the key with coco is managing pot/plant size and the frequency/amount of watering. In the beer cups I would water once daily for a week or two, then twice, and by the time I threw the HPS over them I couldn't seem to water enough. I increased the amount to 6 times daily, and by the end of flower I had gone from 1 min on/off to 2. This is only during lights on. During lights off they would never get any water, although near the end I was having to manually turn the drippers on once during lights off, the beer cups just couldn't handle the nug size above them without such frequent waterings. That's a huge increase in water intake. I would guess at least 10x more. From reading through threads on here and ICMag, the best results seem to come from smaller pots and more frequent feedings.

    I can PM over some good reading on other sites if you're interested.

    (EDIT) One more tip! If you end up going DTW drip, I've found keeping a low EC with frequent watering to be best. I tend to stay below 1.0 EC. The plants have access to a constantly fresh supply, so I see no need to feed such high concentration when it will be refreshed 2 hours later. With 3 days between watering I can see the reasoning, but with a DTW drip, it's another beast entirely.

    StickyTreez Member

    Chugging along, previously ive had a bit of a salt and overwatering problem (i just want to love them!) but im getting much better and veg plants are greening back up and looking healthy :)

    Three of the newest (SourDiesel, 2 GrandaddyPurp) are doing awesome in my coco/cowcompost mix. Very happy with the dark healthy green and ill be doing that from now onin lieu of coco and all nutes.

    ANd hopefully start feeding worm tea to veg. Made a worm farm outa a rubbermaid with ~20 holes for ventilation. Threw in some old coco/roots/leaves/animal hair/apple cores etc etc in it :P Good for plants and the environment

    Ill try to grab a picture of the flowering room right at lights off, one or two plants had a salt/overwatering issue :( and suffered/are taking longer but i think its getting better from here.

    Still going to switch the flowering to flood and drain probably, but i dont know which nutes to use :/

    I refuse to use expensive nutes, or a complicated regime i simply see no value.
    Was looking into jacks or maybe dynagro but idk i was looking for some different ratios/makeups.
    Considering making my own
    Using Maxibloom/grow atm but im not liking the really high K and low nitrogen in bloom, Too low

    Excited about my Chocolate rain #11 and LA chocolate (chocolope must be a great parent) both stink already in veg and are two different strains from different breeders but with the same parent :P

    But i ramble on,
    Just got some new wax from my favorite dispensary so im off to dab it up to some zeppelin :P

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    StickyTreez Member

    Lol LIES! So many threads online say coco is hydro keep it wet, keep it wet, dont let it dry. LIES! Lol IMHO ive found that i get much much much much much better growth treating it like soil. Maybe my coir is more coiry, maybe its my nutes or environment. But ive found letting it get dry (veg plants wilt) makes them much better fed and encourages healthy root growth.

    Do what works :P

    Anyway, harvested my messed up flowering plant as well as put in a male a couple days ago. Want to have lots of free homemade seeds. Should be dumping his pollen tonight or tomorrow as all the balls have gotten alot bigger since that pic (2 days ago).

    Also figured out my coco was too wet for cloning and i need a humidity dome first 2 days then remove or else i get mold/fungus. But finally getting everything down to the details :]

    Worms doing well, and im in the process of buying/building my flood and drain excited about that. Think thats it, :mrgreen:

    Oh and i know i never have flowering pics (best part right?) but its cause i have a shitty old camera. Should be borrowing a nice digital one to snap a few in the next week or so.

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    StickyTreez Member

    Things going well, one messed up plant from overwater or salt build up. But the other flowers are doing well. Male is dumping pollen (gave it a shake and could see the pollen flying around :P). So in a month or two i should have plenty of seeds to last me for a couple years :D
    Should have NewBlueDiesel X Soliliqueen, NBD X Random, and maybe NBD X NBD or SQ X SQ. Mainly though ill be getting the Soliliqueen X NBD cross :P

    So... the Soliliqueen is : space queen f3 x ms.universe #10. Sativa Dom
    And the NBD is : New York City Diesel X Blueberry Indica Dom
    Hopefully i get some good phenoS :P

    Messed up flower still drying but i think itll be decent smoke none the less.

    Veg plants all doing better every day and clones looking decent.

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    StickyTreez Member

    Took out the male today, plenty of pollen has been released and im sure ill be getting plenty of seeds considering i clone until i flower out each pheno. (or at least try in the past lol). Although hopefully with my new hydro setup (getting stuff slowly lol) ill be able to flower out more phenos to find 'keepers'.

    Really loving the noding in the Soliliqueen so hoping that carries over into the BD X SQ cross.
    The noname i didnt both cloning has bad noding and is really 'sparse' however the calyx are super big and frosty compared to some other phenos, so would love for it to have a couple seeds with the right combo of each genetics.

    Mmmmmm breeding is fun :P and no point in having to buy seeds or clones more than once or twice.

    StickyTreez Member

    Obvious that some of the SQ has been pollinated so tahts sweet :P Switched from maxigro/bloom to using Jacks 20-20-20 because my flowers keep turing yellow and losing leaves way to prematurely. Noname is getting some PHAT calyx so kinda sad i never cloned it, but hoping i get a couple seeds. messed up Blue Diesel flower is close to being done so thats good to get it outa the way for my SMELLY Chocolate Rain phono

    My messed up killing fields is in jars now and smokes decent despite being messed up pretty bad. Excited to try again and not have salt buildup/overwater issues.

    In the next 2 weeks ill be putting together my Flood and Drain and will do a good indepth post on it. Plan on going Jacks Hydro FeEd during first 2-3 weeks flowering then jacks blossom bloom 132 for end flowering. Using expanded silica media. But like i said ill do a good indepth post when i finally put it together :P

    Mmmm dabs are so nice :P Havent blasted my own (dispensaries make so good concentrates) but i think ill try soon

    StickyTreez Member

    Lol so ive started using jacks 20-20-20 for Veg and Flowering, yellowing i was getting in flowering is going away now :P And it dissolves so much easier than Maxi. Really liking it although ill have to get something else for hydro since most of the nitrogen is urea based... Think jacks makes hydro veg nutes with nitrates though so when i start my flood and drain ill probably find some of that.

    Getting lots of seeds developing in my SoliliQueen and my noname. (Blue diesel daddy). Noname i thought was a runt but it has some of the PHATEST calyx ive grown so im pretty excited to get a cross of that since i didnt bother to clone it.

    Worms are exploding in numbers and destroying everything i throw in there :P But still will probably keep feeding for another month before i stop and then harvest.

    Veg looks about the same so wont bother taking pics lol. Might try to get a pic of the flowering seeds developing in the next day or two and post it :P

    StickyTreez Member

    Lol not the best, need to borrow that nice digital camera. One that is back left is messed up from nute problems/salt buildup, closest to harvest.
    In the back newest is a SQ pheno, notice the deep green :) from feeding jacks instead of maxibloom (one thats all dead lost all the leaves to N def b/c i heard that "you can go maxibloom throughout the whole grow" crock o shit lol. )

    Ones in the front are SQ pheno left and noname right, both seeded from BD. Cant see from bad quality but there are plenty of immature green seeds developing.

    Did i mention i got three quart jars full of KF messed up budS? Got a clone of it though and going to reflower the pheno and make sure it was the nutrient problem and not genetics (had crazy crazy amount of bunnyears all over the foxtailing buds (dont mind foxtails but bunny ears add to harsher smoke, i like calyx not leaves))

    AND included my vape with concentrate attachment and some dispensary wax :P Tasty tasty :weed:

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    StickyTreez Member

    Not cheap to upgrade, guess not really expensive either.

    3'x3' ABS Plastic Flood Tray $100
    Heavy duty Net pots (25) $40
    Ebb and Flow fitting kit $10
    Expanded Silica rocks $40
    Pump $15
    Lumber for table $40
    Sterilite Res(40gallon?) $10
    Timer $10
    Jacks Hydro FeED $30

    Flood and Drain Total : ~$300

    Also will be upgrading to 600w Cooltube for new flood and drain setup. Probably will put the LED away and use my 400w HPS to Veg.

    Lol love my cat but ive lost genetics due to him being hungry for clones.

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    StickyTreez Member

    Lol, so my back flower is by far one of the healthiest looking flowers ive grown in this setup. I attribute that to the more balanced food 20-20-20. However....!

    Now instead of getting yellow leaves and dropping leaves, the bottom canopy has just a couple of leaves dying that look just like this phos def, so im assuming that the flower growth stretch is over and now they are wanting to pack on the buds :P So gave it a shot of Maxibloom 5-15-14. Although ill switch to jacks blossom booster 1-3-2 after it runs out, cheaper pretty much same makeup and dissolves faster.

    Will probably be giving primarily flower nutes now although ill throw in a 202020 blast ever now and then to keep my leaves healthy until the end (iv also found that allowing leaves to yellow contributes to ugly looking buds and even bud rot when that dead leaf is sandwiched between some calyx.

    Lol not that they would ever read this but i would like to Thank growers like UncleBen, Homebrewer, Riddlme. They can be quite outspoken and although i dont agree with everything they have to say they are great growers and i love their dedication to keeping plants healthy and green throughout the grow. By contrast to the thread on icmag which got me into coco (great stuff) but falsely taught me maxibloom is all you need throughout the entire grow. Lol nope.

    Last night soaked two Kalimist X Bubblegum from Serious Seeds.
    Excited because its a Sativa Dom (my fav) and ive heard great things

    Lol and uppotted my Mojo Indica Dom strain (dont remember where i got the seeds so i just named it randomly myself :P) Smells and looks nice :D

    StickyTreez Member

    Lol wow seeds are way more expensive than they can be. Estimating, Should net 100-500 seeds. :P And on a handful of small plants under a small light lol.

    AND most breeders dont even have F# generations they just open pollinate what other breeders have been breeding lol. Silly market (*not that some awesome breeders havent done awesomely), Bit i digresssssss

    Loving my Worm Bin :P highly suggest it as a way to advert compost from our landfills. And provides high quality soil/coco amendments

    StickyTreez Member

    Lol setting up the flood and drain, Drilled two holes, used the kit and some silicone to seal it all up. Zip tied the tubing just in case. Seemed to work but well see over the next couple days :P

    Also still have my 400w and coco plants, still need to run to the store for the 600w. Then ill start cloning into my Expanded Shale Pebbles and start my sog FLood and drain :P

    Expecting/hoping for 100 seeds from my crosses :P Should be ready in the next week and ill harvest the three Then ill be looking to start my SOG

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    StickyTreez Member

    Wellllls the one messed up one looked worse and i went ahead and chopped. Hopefully the seeds are mature enough/bud isnt horrible.

    Other plants looking good and flood and drain working decently for coco. Seems too wet though even just running once. But plants look pretty healthy so I'm not going to worry last of the coco flowers.

    Got mylar from the store today for my new flowering room :P Were getting pro here hehe. Also got my cooltube and 600w bulb. Didnt like any of the ballasts at the hydro store, price, want a mag so it lasts etc. So ill probably keep on eye on craigs list or maybe check out another store or two.

    Some of the seeds are turning dark :) but ill be waiting until the majority are dark to harvest.

    Cat ate one of my Kalimistbubblegum seedlings :/ Still have another going and i just started germinating 4 White Russians seeds :)

    Will update when i get the cooltube/system all setup

    StickyTreez Member

    Wellllllll, long story short wont be getting a 600w. Thought i was going to be providing for another patient but now im not lol. Kinda bummed because i wanted to go hydro and now i wont. Ah well :P Might step up in the future but for now the 400w is fine.

    That being said i did some upgrades. Veg room instead of poorly sprayed cardboard i now have mylar all around my veg room to improve the LED efficiency. Also moved my flower room from my closest to my unused grow tent. Improved ventilation because its not in my closet. Getting canopy temperature of 84F instead of 90s :o :D

    Also the walls are silver vs flat white and far, increasing my light efficiency in my flowering room.

    Timer was messed up because of being manuel push down things that got messed up by cords pushing it. But with new tent its better so shouldnt have any more timing issues.

    Moved Chocolate Rain into the flowering room after taking another two cuttings in addition to the meh clone that hopefully lives.

    And also harvested my noname phat calyx flower, looks good and is popping dark seeds (bd male) so hoping the smoke is good and ill be growing out some offspring.
    SQ 1 (bd male)seeded plant should be done next in the next 7-10 days.

    Will probably post pictures tomorrow when lights first kick on. :P

    LakesideWiseman Member

    100% agreed about the nutes my friend! I've been running a N-P-K-Ca-Mg (Elemental PPM) of 1.7-1-2-2-1, but from what I've been reading MJ is not that different than other plants and a 3-1-4-2-1 maybe be best. (Still need to experiment with this one.)

    I've read great things about Jack's Pro Hydro + CalNit. I've also read a bit of Mg and possibly Ca boost is needed with it in Coco. Capitulator has a good thread over on THC Farmer about it. He runs 3-2-1, Jack's Pro-CalNit-Epsom (By weight). I've been using the GH 3 Part as well as Epsom Salts, some generic Bloom Booster(1-22-44), and some CalMag+ in the nutrient spreadsheet and can get a pretty wide variety of ratios using those locally available products. Just be sure you use a decent proportion of the Micro and you'll be covered on that end.

    You can find the nutrient spreadsheet I've been using HERE.

    I definitely don't think that 20-20-20 is a great choice to use as a standalone, although might mix in well with your current regimen. I would be check and be sure there is no Urea as the source of N in that fert, if it is, it will stay that way, as pure coco lacks the microbiology, at least in sufficient numbers, to convert Urea to Ammonical N. Ammonical N serves limited purpose in Hydro, but is a great way to help buffer pH, especially in recirculating systems.

    Good luck with your Treez Sticky!

    StickyTreez Member

    Awww you broke my posting streak ;) lol

    But really ty for the ec nutrient suggestion. Ironically i heavily looked into and read the Jackspro + Calnit threads however when i went and found my areas water quality it already had plenty of calcium in it, i was worried if i had calcium nitrate + tap water calcium i could have too much and get lockouts.
    And going to have to respectfully disagree on coco not harboring the microherd needed to convert urea and other locked nutrients. Ive seen it work quite well with almost all urea nutes (20-20-20 is mostly urea nitrogen). Even has those little white bugs (springtails) that are in good soil, and carry around microbes and help the process. Also throw in a little compost (5-10%) in my coco so maybe thats helping jump start my microbes.

    But back to nutrients :P i opted for jacks hydro FeED 16-4-17 and then the 1-3-2 bloom. Hydro FeED has almost all nitrate based nitrogen. This was also when i thought i was going to do pure expanded shale in a flood and drain butt for the moment im going to keep to coco(will mix some shale in) and step up to 1 gallon containers instead of the 2 liters i currently use.

    Might be looking to go vertical so ill be following your journal wiseman :P

    Also toying with the idea of all shale and drip lines going to a couple plants. Dont think it would be too hard at all and wouldnt be so wasteful. Although i would have to do it in one big harvest batch so i could control the nutrients for the flowering phases. Idk

    Pics of my tent, cut good plant, bad photo of the buds (ill try to do alot better job when i trim it up), and veg. (notice the mylar :D )

    SQ has seeds literally sitting on buds all huge and black and brown :) waiting for some of the lower ones to darken up and then shell be getting the axe!

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    Canabuz Member

    They look good

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