4 Season greenhouse take 1

karmaxul

Well-Known Member
Two options jump to mind; one, gas lantern style timing to keep stuff in veg until you're ready. Two, supplemental lighting at the beginning or end of day to extend day length and accomplish the same thing.

Light supplementation during dim winter days can certainly also help perk up plant health and yields.
I think that it may depend on the spectrums they receive. I would love some induction lighting though Im not sure it will happen this year and to be honest if I could do it with out I might as well in terms of health. Certain wavelengths build up certain things and certain ones break them down. It would be curious to know what the intensities are at different times in the room. Maybe Ill invest in a meter. It would be nice if there was one that would monitor the flux on an app.

Growth yes they would grow more with lights, though what of the quality potential? I would rather focus on quality and expand from there. Nature is hard to match
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I think that it may depend on the spectrums they receive. I would love some induction lighting though Im not sure it will happen this year and to be honest if I could do it with out I might as well in terms of health. Certain wavelengths build up certain things and certain ones break them down. It would be curious to know what the intensities are at different times in the room. Maybe Ill invest in a meter. It would be nice if there was one that would monitor the flux on an app.

Growth yes they would grow more with lights, though what of the quality potential? I would rather focus on quality and expand from there. Nature is hard to match
Unless my guess is way off, I'd be willing to bet that COB LED lighting would be an excellent supplement to natural light and would work very well in a greenhouse setting.

Don't get me started on nature; you're the one trying to grow an annual in the winter! LOL
 

karmaxul

Well-Known Member
Unless my guess is way off, I'd be willing to bet that COB LED lighting would be an excellent supplement to natural light and would work very well in a greenhouse setting.

Don't get me started on nature; you're the one trying to grow an annual in the winter! LOL
Im curious why the COB LED. It looks to produce an opposite spectrum then the sun. At first glance I am a bit concerned it could throw certain balances off.

cob led .jpg
I like the induction or LEP though for HID I would go with hortilux blue.
 

karmaxul

Well-Known Member
I should say by natural, unmolested with imbalance from things like inbreeding and phosphorus. Phosphorus levels in any forest soil are .001ppm. The forests flower very well with out it. Not to go off in a tangent though when I see a society drinking phosphorus at 10 times the level it would take to keep raw, room temp. fish from rotting indefinitely it troubles me. It only takes a few generations.

If you look the COB uses phosphorus since we are on the subject. Notice the placement. It is not a balanced element. Notice its wavelength.

periodic table rec. .jpg
 
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Im curious why the COB LED. It looks to produce an opposite spectrum then the sun. At first glance I am a bit concerned it could throw certain balances off.

View attachment 3542580
I like the induction or LEP though for HID I would go with hortilux blue.
Those color charts are for chips that are either out of date or something the home RIU LED team doesn't recommend. Try finding some charts of CXB3590 at 3500 Kelvin. While you're at it, have a look at the grows they've done with it. I'm a HUGE fan of empirical evidence (both Columbus and Copernicus are personal heroes for this reason), and what these guys are doing with COB chips in a growroom silenced my doubts.

Meanwhile, you might reflect on the fact that plants don't use yellow or green light efficiently the next time you look at an HPS spectral output graph. I'm frankly amazed plants will put up with it at all, yet I've grown great bud under HPS. Go figure...
 

karmaxul

Well-Known Member
I thought plants used mostly yellow light as it converted cholorplasts to starches. I always thought the plants used about 60% yellow, 30%blue and 10% red on average. The average color of those ratios is green. Yellow light promotes cell elongation as does cytokinins and blue light produces compact cell growth same as auxins. To increase growth of plants though maintain the same physical dimensions about 70% cytokinins to 30% auxins. So perhaps looking at it differently the sun may produce more yellow light though it may just not get used as efficiently.

I remember the days where HPS meant yellow light though it seems the times have changed and there are blue hps lights and yellow MH and ballasts that don't mind either. Ill have to do some reading, thanks
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I thought plants used mostly yellow light as it converted cholorplasts to starches. I always thought the plants used about 60% yellow, 30%blue and 10% red on average. The average color of those ratios is green. Yellow light promotes cell elongation as does cytokinins and blue light produces compact cell growth same as auxins. To increase growth of plants though maintain the same physical dimensions about 70% cytokinins to 30% auxins. So perhaps looking at it differently the sun may produce more yellow light though it may just not get used as efficiently.

I remember the days where HPS meant yellow light though it seems the times have changed and there are blue hps lights and yellow MH and ballasts that don't mind either. Ill have to do some reading, thanks
Plant's chlorophyll response is in deep red and a fairly hard blue. Plant's transpiration converts whatever wavelength hits it into heat and transpires water into vapor, cooling the plant and pulling the vacuum needed for more water and nutrients to be drawn up the stem.

Plants use yellow and especially green light very poorly, so it really isn't needed in their spectral diet. The currently favoured mix is two parts red to one part blue. Some add a fourth part that emits more blue and up to 10% UVB, shown to increase trichome production.

Since COB LED spikes in both the right area of blue and red, it comes as little surprise that it grows plants very well. These of course can be tuned up and down the Kelvin scale, but as an example I ordered mine with a 3500 Kelvin color temperature rating.

Thus, COB LED lighting is very much in line with the latest thinking in broad spectrum LED lighting and it's backed up by grows shown by many members right here. Us DIY types just happen to have a big jump on the tech right now.
 

Joedank

Well-Known Member
Have you ever tried like a big bud strain or heavy producers with limited sun hour exposure? I getting in some MasterC99 though would be interested to see how different plants will react to this style growing in the winter time. Should I stick with sativas or throw caution to the wind? Is there an ideal flowering window I should consider? How much sun/clouds do you experience and any idea with your average sun exposure times?

Also can I ask how much can be produced in a room such as yours and in what area that is from please?
if you got the headroom and supplemental light a pound per 3ftx 3ft space is obtainable with most strains from cutting .
yes i have run a sweettooth #3 in the solar in winter and it got budrot(bot.greymold) but never hav PM as i foliar with neem and Si emulsifier . and i have TONS of CA and Si in my soils (equistiem and DE)
..... so go with a sativa or "OG" style plant and you will be happy .
i am on the 38th parallel at 7200 ft and get patchy clouds for weeks sometimes . so the greenhouse is for seed runs from feb-april as we get TONS of snow then ... it can lead to foxtails in most strains as the days get longer and i want to be lazy ....lolz
 

karmaxul

Well-Known Member
Plant's chlorophyll response is in deep red and a fairly hard blue. Plant's transpiration converts whatever wavelength hits it into heat and transpires water into vapor, cooling the plant and pulling the vacuum needed for more water and nutrients to be drawn up the stem.

Plants use yellow and especially green light very poorly, so it really isn't needed in their spectral diet. The currently favoured mix is two parts red to one part blue. Some add a fourth part that emits more blue and up to 10% UVB, shown to increase trichome production.

Since COB LED spikes in both the right area of blue and red, it comes as little surprise that it grows plants very well. These of course can be tuned up and down the Kelvin scale, but as an example I ordered mine with a 3500 Kelvin color temperature rating.

Thus, COB LED lighting is very much in line with the latest thinking in broad spectrum LED lighting and it's backed up by grows shown by many members right here. Us DIY types just happen to have a big jump on the tech right now.
Have any trials been run with out high fertiliser content so the plant actually uses the exudates that it naturally would dictate half of its energy production towards? Sorry Im hesitant what the industry tells me with the current phosphorus trend.

if you got the headroom and supplemental light a pound per 3ftx 3ft space is obtainable with most strains from cutting .
yes i have run a sweettooth #3 in the solar in winter and it got budrot(bot.greymold) but never hav PM as i foliar with neem and Si emulsifier . and i have TONS of CA and Si in my soils (equistiem and DE)
..... so go with a sativa or "OG" style plant and you will be happy .
i am on the 38th parallel at 7200 ft and get patchy clouds for weeks sometimes . so the greenhouse is for seed runs from feb-april as we get TONS of snow then ... it can lead to foxtails in most strains as the days get longer and i want to be lazy ....lolz
Im on the 45th parallel at 420 feet. Im trying to remember when I shut my supplemental lighting down last year. I think its when we hit 12 hours of light though most still started to show signs of flowering unless they were young from seed. I imagine I will be good through mid may to flower in there though got to start outdoor some time too. Maybe I can cycle them together and max out the space.
 
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Have any trials been run with out high fertiliser content so the plant actually uses the exudates that it naturally would dictate half of its energy production towards? Sorry Im hesitant what the industry tells me with the current phosphorus trend.



Im on the 45th parallel at 420 feet. Im trying to remember when I shut my supplemental lighting down last year. I think its when we hit 12 hours of light though most still started to show signs of flowering unless they were young from seed. I imagine I will be good through mid may to flower in there though got to start outdoor some time too. Maybe I can cycle them together and max out the space.
BIG difference between phosphors in soil and those in lights. All I can tell you is that COB LED is growing great crops for real growers right here on RIU and is handily outperforming both older LED and anything with a bulb in it. Cost is currently a factor but it too will continue falling, even as newer chips with even higher performance hit the market.

As for phosphorus' place in organic gardening, I defer to your superior judgement- although isn't bone meal an organic source of P?
 

karmaxul

Well-Known Member
Bone meal is an organic source of phosphorus yes. My only concern with the lighting is the wavelength may stimulate phosphoruses wavelength as like wave lengths amplify each other and potentially could make it more active and give heavier yields due to such caustic nature where my concern would be in the quality and microbial health inside the plant. Ill have to read into it for sure and it does sound like a very interesting subject. Anyhow bone meal would have a different phosphorus chelation then say whatever it is that labs make. The levels ppm per ppm would not be as deteriorating to the microbial levels in the soil with bone meal especially since it is balanced by nature with calcium and other nutrients. I would still be cautious with levels more then N or K. As for taste, I have tried bone meal in with some castings and it leaves a bad taste in the plant in my opinion.


I got the side foundations all set today and the 4x4 base beam in place around the bottom. Tomorrow I am going to see if I can't start to put up the back wall and brace it up like that so all I really need to do it throw the beams in place and well I guess a whole bunch more stuff though its coming along. Im on the search for 24 ft boards tomorrow.
 
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karmaxul

Well-Known Member
Not to get to far with out photos...

Have the 2x6 x 24 foot rafters coming today. Since Im doing this by myself I figured out a way to progress, just waiting on the batteries to recharge for the drill at the moment. I need more straw. The raised portion has a layer of straw bails under it. I think 50 more bails should do it. The inner 8 feet should need the most. Again thats R-25 for the straw bails. I may tarp the straw layer for the upper part before the stone goes on just to get a bit more air in there, save material and insulate that much more. I actually have to start from the other side as the corner closest will be polycarbonate for the last 10 feet or so which is more insulated then glass for this series though only lets in 75% lights. Yes I need to clean the glass...

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karmaxul

Well-Known Member
Polycarbonate is finally here though I am not going to risk trying to get it up before the rain is due. I think I can get some of the walls built in the mean time. Four more days until the rental truck to bring up the castings. Maybe I should start trying to see what I can do about the floor too. Definitely needs more straw though I can consolidate to the side perhaps for a better assessment. Instead of a heat pump I was thinking a wiseway stove with the water jacket attachment.
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