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24x24 uninsulated Garage in New England build out?

Discussion in 'Grow Room Design & Setup' started by p0opstlnksal0t, Jul 30, 2017.

  1.  
    p0opstlnksal0t

    p0opstlnksal0t Active Member

    Ive recently bought a new place up in Maine and have a 24x24x11.5 garage clean slate to build out, I plan on building 1x 10x20 insulated room for now with 6x or 8x 1000w DE's, 48k mini split and modify an ebb n flow system i have for top feed drain to waste. Any tips or input on building a sealed room within a garage would be greatly appreciated. How does one dtw in the frigid cold of Maine winters? will I need to add an aquarium heater to my feed reservoir to keep it from freezing in the uninsulated garage? Ive never ran a top feed dtw, what kind of pump and feeding system should I look at using? I will probably use either perlite or hydroton for the medium, i thought abput coco too but ive had bad experiences with coco in recirc setups and ph. Maybe it will be much simpler in a dtw scenario. which one would be better for a top feed dtw like this? Eventually I'll add in a c02 burner once I get the room dialed in for 1 or 2 cycles. We have a buried propane tank out here so I'll get it plumbed straight to that.
     
  2.  
    Gimlett

    Gimlett Member

    I have never heard of anyone having luck with a recirc system in coco. From what little I know about growing with coco, recirculating nutrient solution makes zero sense. Coco DTW is good tho. A bit of a learning curve, but if you did the recirc thing with it, then DTW should be a breeze.
    Sounds like you have a pretty good idea what you are doing. I would make 2 suggestions. I would go ahead and build my insulated room a little larger than I need it so I can just throw my res in there and not worry about it freezing. I know, I know... a lot of people argue when I say I like to have my res in my grow room, but I find it easier to keep the temps down than to try to keep them up. Also I would not wait to start running CO2. The burner will significantly warm the room and you may as well get your temps dialed in with everything else. With that being said, you could totally do everything just the way you described and you would probably be just fine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  3.  
    maximum autism

    maximum autism Member

    You'll be better off going DTW with coco, you should be alright.
    From one Mainer to another, watch out for that heating bill/electric bill combo in the winter, maybe shoot for some QBs/cobs instead of 8000w of HPS.
     
    CCCmints and Roger A. Shrubber like this.
  4.  
    thumper60

    thumper60 Well-Known Member

    tell ya, what ever sealed insulated room u build better be dam well insulated that baby is going to be sweating on the other side.[cold side] easy c 10-20 below 0 up here open that door going to be steam bath I grow in a garage but well insulated I would vent the cold part to keep it cold don't want warm uninsulated garage [mold]
     
  5.  
    Carolina Dream'n

    Carolina Dream'n Well-Known Member

    Two flower rooms. 10x16
    Flip flop them so you do not have a large power spike, instead a constant power pull.
    3 4x8 trays in each room. 12 315s in each room. DTW using octobubblers and floraflex caps and rockwool.

    One mini split. 5 ton. Multihead. 3 ton in each flower room. 1 ton for a veg room. Since the rooms don't run at the same time you can get away with a smaller ac able to cool both.

    Insulate. Insulate. Insulate. The whole garage. It's worth it. Spray insulation is cheap.

    Co2 isn't an option in a sealed room must be done from the get go.

    2 quest 105 dehumidifier for each flower too. One for veg room.
     
    fn217, BigHornBuds, Colo MMJ and 2 others like this.
  6.  
    p0opstlnksal0t

    p0opstlnksal0t Active Member

    Thanks for the tips guys.

    Spray foaming the whole garage isn't an option right now until I have more savings down the road. I'm thinking about batt insulation and an inner and outer tyvek layer for the interior room walls. Interior will be 3/8 plywood sheathing.

    Coco dtw will probably happen in the modified active aqua ebb n flow buckets. I ordered 8 revolution deva lights and the controller. I'm only going to be building out one room right now that will be roughly 23'x12' 5x5 under each light 4 plants per light

    C02 burners will also be setup from the beginning.

    Does anyone have any input on venting/fresh air exchange at lights off or should I keep it 100% sealed and never vent?
     
  7.  
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    Just build the wall like you would a house wall. Interior to exterior would be as follows....
    Wall covering (your choice), vapour barrier, sealed with tape and acoustical sealant, batt insulation, tyvek and your fine. Do not put tyvek on the interior wall as that will allow moisture into the batts, your outside wall will not condense, that would mean a lot of houses would lol. If your running sealed then I probably would not vent any time but you may have issues with humidity that you would need to deal with, you could vent to deal with that at lights out if needed. I would also keep the res in the room but sealed well, that will also act as a thermal sink at lights out. My biggest issue is cost/data in winter and I run a fraction of what you are doing, the smart meters here give a pretty good picture of what your doing :(.
     
  8.  
    natureboygrower

    natureboygrower Well-Known Member

    if it was me,i would not plastic the inside between the insulation and your sheathing.it will be incredibly tight and wont be able to"breathe" potentially causing moisture issues inside.im sure your venting will help this,however,i wouldnt take the risk. having to take down your sheathing to remove plastic would be a pita if it doesnt.the plastic is a definite no if youre insulation already has the paper backing.i would go with tbe paper backed insuation(pink stuff) towards the interior of the room and then plywood and call it good.there is such a thing as too tight.good luck with the build.im hearing this upcoming winter up north could be a real asskicker
     
    ChefKimbo and p0opstlnksal0t like this.
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    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    You will get moisture in the wall cavity if you don't use a vapour barrier, if that happens, and trust me it will, then you've got a huge problem lol. Have you actually ever built a house? Do you know anything about ventilation in cold climate?
     
    p0opstlnksal0t and thumper60 like this.
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    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    There is no such thing as not tight enough when running a "sealed" room, you deal with it through controlled environment. The days of letting a house "breath" naturally in cold climates are long gone. Controlled ventilation is now code here and houses must pass a depressurization test. As I put my hand to my forehead and bow head.
     
    p0opstlnksal0t and thumper60 like this.
  11.  
    natureboygrower

    natureboygrower Well-Known Member

    yes,i have built my own house.i would skip the plastic vapor barrier and use the paper backed insulation as the vapor barrier,like i said before.i stand behind that.
     
    p0opstlnksal0t and thumper60 like this.
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    thumper60

    thumper60 Well-Known Member

    I built out my garage couple yrs ago,bats in wall with paper after first winter I noticed I out side wall were warped I tore off the inside sheathing an the insulation was soaked from condensation I run sealed,ripped it all out put new this time I ran heavy plastic between bats an inside sheathing,no more warped walls nice dry insulation,the high rh inside an the 10- outside raise hell in walls
     
  13.  
    natureboygrower

    natureboygrower Well-Known Member

    well there you go,op.i stand corrected @Budley Doright . what did you use for sheathing on the inside? @thumper60

    edit where do you get your intake air from during the [email protected] from outside? if so,how does this effect your indoor temps?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  14.  
    thumper60

    thumper60 Well-Known Member

    foil backed foam board chalked an taped 1in so I even had a little r-v with that, when I open the outer door to enter the garage in winter the steam is pouring out I run a dehuy 24-7
     
    p0opstlnksal0t likes this.
  15.  
    p0opstlnksal0t

    p0opstlnksal0t Active Member

    Ok buddy so you're saying I should build the walls as follows
    From the inside of the room frame up your walls, put the Batts between the studs, put heavy plastic sealING the interior then skin the inside with sheathing over the plastic. What is the difference in the plastic vs tyvek? Would the plastic still have condensation on the outer face of it touching the insulation?
     
  16.  
    natureboygrower

    natureboygrower Well-Known Member

    tyvek is meant for the outside of houses between your sheathing and siding.its not as tight as plastic
     
  17.  
    p0opstlnksal0t

    p0opstlnksal0t Active Member

    I will be running the legal amount of plants for our house as of the laws right now. But it's still not a good idea to have the power company tip off leo. Do maine power companies freely give suspected data to leo?

    What are you paying per kw? I had 1000-1500 dollar electric bills when I lived in Texas

     
  18.  
    Budley Doright

    Budley Doright Well-Known Member

    Tyvek is a breathable membrane kind of like gortex. It allows air to move out (with water vapour) but is waterproof on the exterior.
     
  19.  
    thumper60

    thumper60 Well-Known Member

    no the plastic stays warm enough not to condence, its when the warm moist air hits cold dry air u get water,cant draw straight cold air into grow room either need lung room to warm first,i can run vent to about 20 degrees any colder u will get moisture where the air comes into building
     
    Budley Doright likes this.
  20.  
    thumper60

    thumper60 Well-Known Member

    if ya burning that much here they may take a look,i run 3k an a home for 300 a month don't need ac up here just plenty of heat
     

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