Abortion,Birth Control and Resource Depletion

They say there are already too many people and I tend to agree by the way Mother Earth has been working so damned hard to balance things out again. People who don't believe in birth control are foolish and ignorant and pig headed. the invisible space daddy said to procreate and who's smarter than the invisible space daddy?

"Green" energy is either an intermission ... or a trap. We need to progress from "black" energy (fossil fuel) to the "white" stuff (fusion or better). "green" energy which harvests what gradients happen at the planet's surface, are distributed and rather dilute. They'll be fine for supplying household energy, but for the sort of industry that a progressive technical society requires, they won't do. A concentrated, uninterrupted energy source with power density meeting or exceeding current fossil tech is necessary. Nuclear fission might pinch-hit until we either run out of THAT fossil fuel ... or develop fusion or better.
The number of people the planet's surface can support has everything to do with how much energy per capita is available. cn

Originally Posted by cannabineer

"Green" energy is either an intermission ... or a trap. We need to progress from "black" energy (fossil fuel) to the "white" stuff (fusion or better). "green" energy which harvests what gradients happen at the planet's surface, are distributed and rather dilute. They'll be fine for supplying household energy, but for the sort of industry that a progressive technical society requires, they won't do. A concentrated, uninterrupted energy source with power density meeting or exceeding current fossil tech is necessary. Nuclear fission might pinch-hit until we either run out of THAT fossil fuel ... or develop fusion or better.
The number of people the planet's surface can support has everything to do with how much energy per capita is available. cn

Well green is a much better choice until we tranisition to white. I excelled at the humanities of Env Sci but was so lost in the Sciency ones and the environnental economics I don't know why they had such technical classes in an Env Science program but Hey, what's your thoughts on windmills and solar once they play catch up on the cost and efficiency factors? Do you think hemp is a viable replacement fuel?

It is my understanding that during its service life, a windmill cannot produce the amount of energy it takes to actually manufacture & install one.

Windmills, solar and bio (incl. hemp) are ways to harvest some energy from the planetary surface reservoir ... which is distributed and dilute. Harvesting energy that way will always be very, very expensive. Imagine how much solar it would take to just run the solar panel factory. Imagine how many windmills would be needed to run the whole windmill-making industry, from mines to installation. (And then factor in the replacements needed to keep that army of 'mills at full count). Imagine how much hemp, as oil or just biomass, it would take to fully meet the energy needs of the hemp plantation and its associated tractor factory.

The energy cost of green is at best a sizable fraction of gross energy yield. Currently it's negative (meaning making green energy devices consumes more fossil energy than it saves!) and it might stay that way. The improvement in industrial efficiency needed ... is effectively magical from our millennial perspective. We simply don't have the time to revolutionize it before the black energy runs out. Maybe, maybe ... if we had a project like Manhattan or Apollo ... we could get fusion online in time. But only maybe.

And with Western society apparently in a decadent phase, where a welfare economy is testing the load limit of international finance, combined with the looming spectre of global climate change costing us our shorelines, much of our arable/habitable land, and the oldest and brightest seats of our culture and history ... we might be in a footrace with/against a collapse that'll make the fall of Rome look like the cancellation of a favorite TV show. cn

I love when I can draw a response from you on these matters but I am a real life on this stuff I still think the tv and landline phones are magic -let's put my science knowledge in a little perspective so you can talk down at my level? I took and should never have passed sciences as far ahead as physics and areodynamics but my understanding and comprehension is at levers and pulleys. I sort of get from the see saw that if I use a lever the longer the better and I think it's because of this gravity thing I don't really get either so

no I can't imagine how many solar panels or windmills it would take but wouldn't it only take what it took to make them much like black energy is used to make them? and I do get that it costs as much to produce ethanol than is saved but I get farming and they also factor that with the use of petroleum pesticides to grow the damn corn but what about hemp? or say those grease cars, the old diesels turned into engines running on fast food oil waste?

and I remember in 1988ish learning in Science class about this fusion? was it also put on the back burner and not heavily researched since or is it really that hard?

Originally Posted by MellowFarmer

I love when I can draw a response from you on these matters but I am a real life on this stuff I still think the tv and landline phones are magic -let's put my science knowledge in a little perspective so you can talk down at my level? I took and should never have passed sciences as far ahead as physics and areodynamics but my understanding and comprehension is at levers and pulleys. I sort of get from the see saw that if I use a lever the longer the better and I think it's because of this gravity thing I don't really get either so

no I can't imagine how many solar panels or windmills it would take but wouldn't it only take what it took to make them much like black energy is used to make them? and I do get that it costs as much to produce ethanol than is saved but I get farming and they also factor that with the use of petroleum pesticides to grow the damn corn but what about hemp? or say those grease cars, the old diesels turned into engines running on fast food oil waste?

Those grease cars are awesome imo, but they exist in a niche of their own ... fast food grease is commonly available everywhere and too distributed to lend itself to recycling except by dedicated fuel hobbyists. When I get my next house, I'll seriously consider setting up to make biodiesel ... and heat the house with all that free grease.
But the cost of farming is surprisingly high. For hemp to be a viable green energy source, growing it would have to proceed at a net energy surplus, and a healthy one too. Sadly, i don't have a good source for the numbers. cn