Learning...

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

I never maid any claims about god (I dont think lol) just claims that the ancients had advanced knowledge beyond our own. A good example of that is the self explanatory Flower of Life video but the only feedback I got was "blah blah CHERRY PICKING blah blah!"... I dont need to prove god to anyone, only person you need to prove god to is yourself. This beautiful and amazingly complex world proved god to me but even after that I experienced things that cemented my beliefs into facts because my gifted spiritual friend shown me sides to reality that I had no idea existed. I have no faith, thats believing without evidence, I've encountered supernatural evidence multiple times.

(edit) actually I have made claims about god but I dont give two shits if you believe them or not lol it doesnt change whats real.

There is a fine but critical distinction between "self-explanatory" (note hyphen) and "self-promoting". cn

Originally Posted by Zaehet Strife

This dude cheif, is a follower of the new age religion of "indigo children" that originated somewhere between 1960's and late 1970's, and just recently since the 2012 mayan prophecy has increased in popularity.

Just google "indigo children" for more information on the beliefs these wacko's hold onto.

Light beings? Really? Comon.... we are animals, no more special than the smallest biological organism, no more special than the smallest atom.

Cheif you are not special... but there (hopefully) will always be people in your life that gives you a sense of being special, but you arent lol, and neither are we.

Nice try to poke some fun at me, got you one like lol. I am familiar with indigo children but the only thing I believe about that is that a lot of people are born with three strands of DNA. And the claims of indigo children did not give birth to new age spirituality, I dont even know what gave birth to new age spirituality, I didnt even know I was a new age spiritualist until six months after I started my spiritual journey. I was angry when I found they put a label onto something I practice.

Doer gave a perfect example with his velvet reference on how you view experiences. "WOW! I just had an experience that is beyond words and is beyond science. BUT, if I try to label it, thats definitely not what it is, no chance! So instead, Im not gunna trust my self, Im going to discus it with a group of like minded people and see if I can use science to solve it because I am THAT dependent on science!". How can you say you are totally honest with yourself if you dont trust yourself?.. To which you'll say "well, I am probably being fooled by my senses there for claiming any meaning to something thats indescribable, I am lying to myself" IOW, "IT DOESNT MEAN I HAVE A SOUL! IM NO GULLIBLE THEIST!".

I know what I know completely by experience, not reading about something and blindly following it, just experience. And the only explanations you guys could come up with to define my experiences is "Oh, well you just witnessed coincidences...Again and again and again and again! one after another, yep, coincidences." OR "your senses were fooling you, over and over and over and OVER again, humans are prone to illusions" and finally "Your either lying, or your crazy, because for you to be telling the truth, that means my idol (science) knows nothing at all, and spirits exist, making this guy in my display picture a fucking idiot"... If you experienced what I have experienced, you would have DEEP inner conflict, this shit would be digging at your soul. The psych ward would be right around the corner for you because you would not be ready to accept such experiences. It would completely destroy your view of the world (WAY more so than it did mine) and you would feel like a lost scared child and WISH you forget what you experienced.

And for the third time, I know I am not special, all living things are equally divine. Some people may have advantages in knowledge and abilities (certainly not atheists, sorry to say, just speakin the truth) but they are not special. Just like you have somewhat of an advantage with that sacred symbol on your back that benefits you in ways you refuse to understand =). Im jealous of that tattoo, I want that sacred symbol and a couple others tattoo'd on me lol.

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

...I believe about that is that a lot of people are born with three strands of DNA.

Perfect example, why would you believe this if it can be so easily debunked?

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

Doer gave a perfect example with his velvet reference on how you view experiences. "WOW! I just had an experience that is beyond words and is beyond science. BUT, if I try to label it, thats definitely not what it is, no chance! So instead, Im not gunna trust my self, Im going to discus it with a group of like minded people and see if I can use science to solve it because I am THAT dependent on science!". How can you say you are totally honest with yourself if you dont trust yourself?.. To which you'll say "well, I am probably being fooled by my senses there for claiming any meaning to something thats indescribable, I am lying to myself" IOW, "IT DOESNT MEAN I HAVE A SOUL! IM NO GULLIBLE THEIST!".

Where is the value in sticking the label "GOD dun it!" on something we can't explain? Or saying "it was a UFO!"? What does that add? Most people who say they see UFO's immediately jump onto the ALIENS! bandwagon because they've been conditioned their entire lives by the culture they live in to believe anything they can't identify that's flying MUST BE aliens!

Get a load of this;



This guy is absolutely convinced he's seeing a UFO, his sense of sight is LYING to him, convincing his brain he is seeing something he isn't. The reporter and his team set it up so a bunch of big balloons were released a couple miles away in order to TRICK the guy into believing he was seeing a UFO.

All 5 of your senses are susceptible to this exact same process.

After that explanation, you should be able to understand why we view peer review as something absolutely essential to scientific progress.

If you see something you don't understand, it doesn't matter, if you see something you don't understand, write a paper about it, take observations, make calculations, make predictions based on those calculations and come across the exact same thing again as predicted by your calculations and observations, that's science. Trying to skate past this system leads to bunk science and bullshit answers.

Basically, you can't fool thousands of people smarter than yourself who have the ability to test the claims you're making, so if what you present is bullshit, it will quickly be discovered. If on the other hand, each of those thousands of scientists who are smarter than you come to the same conclusions you did, that's science.

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

I know what I know completely by experience, not reading about something and blindly following it, just experience.

So you don't believe in anything you haven't personally experienced yourself?

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

And the only explanations you guys could come up with to define my experiences is "Oh, well you just witnessed coincidences...Again and again and again and again! one after another, yep, coincidences." OR "your senses were fooling you, over and over and over and OVER again, humans are prone to illusions" and finally "Your either lying, or your crazy, because for you to be telling the truth, that means my idol (science) knows nothing at all, and spirits exist, making this guy in my display picture a fucking idiot"... If you experienced what I have experienced, you would have DEEP inner conflict, this shit would be digging at your soul. The psych ward would be right around the corner for you because you would not be ready to accept such experiences. It would completely destroy your view of the world (WAY more so than it did mine) and you would feel like a lost scared child and WISH you forget what you experienced.

Why don't you speak to a psychiatrist about these issues and actually get a professional opinion? Would you simply disregard anything s/he said because their practice is based in science?

Originally Posted by Dr.J20

how exactly would someone have noticed that the world still existed while he or she was still sleeping? you see that phenomenological example requires of proof that it be presented to your senses...it is a slightly oblique manner of approaching heisenberg's uncertainty principle (wherein systemic uncertainty is introduced by the understanding that to study a system is to alter that system, making study perpetually just slightly retrospective; we can only say how things just were or predict where an electron would have been had we not disrupted it's path.
so basically, yes, it is radically skeptical to say i think you're all fucking lying to me, if i have to take your facts just because someone else says your smart...see this is where the fetish for proof starts peeling back and revealing its own limitation.

You don't take someone's word because someone told you to, that would be foolish. Facts remain facts, regardless of who presents them though. I see no limitation to demanding evidence of something; unless you mean it would limit people's ability to make decisions based on what makes them "feel good".

Originally Posted by afrawfraw

I have no interest in what one delusional entity thinks it sees. My senses and thought processes are fallible. So I don't trust what I perceive, however "real" it may seem. Manipulate my emotions, manipulate my perception. Who can I trust? A practice which seeks information only. A population of all faiths and backgrounds, drawn together to discover common truths. Can I say, "There's no god."? Of course not. I can only say that everyone who looked at the problem, discovered we don't have enough information. So "?" will have to do for now.

Too stoned to type this out again. Meh.

Originally Posted by Padawanbater2

Perfect example, why would you believe this if it can be so easily debunked?



Where is the value in sticking the label "GOD dun it!" on something we can't explain? Or saying "it was a UFO!"? What does that add? Most people who say they see UFO's immediately jump onto the ALIENS! bandwagon because they've been conditioned their entire lives by the culture they live in to believe anything they can't identify that's flying MUST BE aliens!

Get a load of this;



This guy is absolutely convinced he's seeing a UFO, his sense of sight is LYING to him, convincing his brain he is seeing something he isn't. The reporter and his team set it up so a bunch of big balloons were released a couple miles away in order to TRICK the guy into believing he was seeing a UFO.

All 5 of your senses are susceptible to this exact same process.

After that explanation, you should be able to understand why we view peer review as something absolutely essential to scientific progress.

If you see something you don't understand, it doesn't matter, if you see something you don't understand, write a paper about it, take observations, make calculations, make predictions based on those calculations and come across the exact same thing again as predicted by your calculations and observations, that's science. Trying to skate past this system leads to bunk science and bullshit answers.

Basically, you can't fool thousands of people smarter than yourself who have the ability to test the claims you're making, so if what you present is bullshit, it will quickly be discovered. If on the other hand, each of those thousands of scientists who are smarter than you come to the same conclusions you did, that's science.



So you don't believe in anything you haven't personally experienced yourself?



Why don't you speak to a psychiatrist about these issues and actually get a professional opinion? Would you simply disregard anything s/he said because their practice is based in science?

Really Pad? You honestly think you made good argument? Gimme a break man. I dont know where UFO's came from but people who dont believe aliens visit us are seriously deluding themselves. You sure take your time to respond to me for someone who doesnt take me seriously at all. Why would I need to see a psychiatrist? Im happy, happy with my experiences and happy with what I know. You could say Im being more honest with myself by not seeing a psychiatrist or any other professional to discuss my experiences. And since theres no argument from you there I take it that what I said are your only explanations for my experiences... And if Im the troll your talking about, then your only feeding my satisfaction with your long winded regurgitated scientific bullshit lol. So keep it coming I guess =)

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

Really Pad? You honestly think you made good argument?

Seeing as there was no attempt to counter any of the points I made, I'm going to go ahead and conclude the argument was valid.

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

Gimme a break man. I dont know where UFO's came from but people who dont believe aliens visit us are seriously deluding themselves.

Where is the physical evidence that suggests aliens have visited the Earth?

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

You sure take your time to respond to me for someone who doesnt take me seriously at all.

It doesn't take me long at all.

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

Why would I need to see a psychiatrist? Im happy, happy with my experiences and happy with what I know. You could say Im being more honest with myself by not seeing a psychiatrist or any other professional to discuss my experiences.

Denial.

Originally Posted by Chief Walkin Eagle

And since theres no argument from you there I take it that what I said are your only explanations for my experiences... And if Im the troll your talking about, then your only feeding my satisfaction with your long winded regurgitated scientific bullshit lol. So keep it coming I guess =)

Rational arguments don't work on irrational people.

And take a 'Trolls gon' Troll...' for the road.

Originally Posted by Padawanbater2

Seeing as there was no attempt to counter any of the points I made, I'm going to go ahead and conclude the argument was valid.



Where is the physical evidence that suggests aliens have visited the Earth?



It doesn't take me long at all.



Denial.



Rational arguments don't work on irrational people.

And take a 'Trolls gon' Troll...' for the road.

You feel that I am irrational yet you still throw regurgitated "rational" arguments in my face lol keep it coming pad =)