PROOF that GOD Exists......

We live in a time where religion still bear the sins of the fathers.And why not? The wounds are still fresh.Let's face it.Religious persecution in its time was the worst of the worst. The Crusades,Roman catholic conquests,Inquisition,etc.,etc.Pick your poison
These times still echo through what we know of as religion today.KKK,supremacist,Muslim extremist,etc.,etc. Again,pick a poison.There's plenty of them.

We bear a heavy cross.After all it is(of) religion that is attached forevermore to these events.Even if it was misrepresented,it will never change history.What's done is done.

So,we must bear the burden.It is the price we pay for the sins of the fathers.The price we pay for our beliefs.Maybe one day the wounds will heal over.For it is said that time heals all wounds.But we must agree that our religious forebears cut pretty deep.So it is not likely we'll see it healed within our generation,but we can work to the future.How?Don't ask me I'm just another guy on the internet.

But I would like to see it.I hope by the next generation.So that our descendants never have to bear the same burden.

Originally Posted by afrawfraw

It could easily be proven that Mankind is better off without religion. Good luck getting the grants for that experiment.

how, exactly?

Originally Posted by eye exaggerate

...thanks. Do you think that any form 'nationalism' should be disregarded?

Insofar as the church situation goes, my experiences have been different. I guess it may be a denominational difference, I don't know.

Someone reads some scripture, someone else gives a current day example or interpretation. No fire and brimstone, even when I was a kid. *shrugs* If the passage happened to be on the more severe side, the interpretation was always clear in relaying the symbolism.

There's too much in the bible that is outright hate, no matter how you try to look at it. Then there's the petty and selfish god that destroyed sodom and gomorrah, but was cool with Lot knocking up his daughters, after turning his wife into a pillar of salt for looking back at her now destroyed home. Or, there's the tale of Job; god torments poor Job to prove a point to the devil. Really? An all powerful god feels the need to prove a point to satan? Then there's the fact that it calls homosexuals an "abomination", no symbolism in there. Then there's the constant preaching against the rich in the new testament. Then, to top it all off, there's the fact that the "bible" was assembled by a bunch of people who got to pick for themselves what went in the bible. Even if there is some legitimacy to religion, christianity is definitely not where you will find it.

Originally Posted by kpmarine

Then there's the fact that it calls homosexuals an "abomination", no symbolism in there.

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ SOMETHING LONG PLEASE, >>>

The bible does not say this. those leviticus quotes are translations taken out of context and reinterpreted by persons ill-equipped to do such intellectual work, then used selectively to incite anger and abhorrence towards homosexuals. The socio-historical context of Leviticus is just as important as what is written there, and those stories in the Bible have, for a very long time, been understood as teaching parables to help people understand fundamental concepts more easily: like love and respect your fellow man, be honest, be cognizant of your limitations. Yeah with hard work, study, and rational investigation we SHOULD all come to these understandings, but not everybody has been so fortunate to have the amount of wealth required to sit around and ponder this kind of thing. In one of these threads (maybe even this one) someone went down the "is religion natural to man?" line of questioning: in one sense, when man was fighting for his life daily, i'm not real sure whether he had time for the concept of religion, or anything else for that matter--seems like he'd be pretty busy trying to get food water and shelter.
not sure that one went anywhere but the bible doesn't say homosexuality is an abomination--that quote is more along the lines "for a man to lay with another man is an abomination" and, if my study of this isn't too terribly rusty, the proscriptions there are more pointedly about obedience and the protection of the jewish 'tribe.' So, your lambast against Christians falls flat as their claim to the Hebrew Bible usually rests with the fact that Jesus was a Jew and so, since he studied that i'm sure it seemed like a good idea to his followers to include that in the new religion they were going to build around his teachings, even though his teachings were radical "revisions" of those very strict and often contradictory rules of the Hebrew bible. Since they also thought only very learned men would be reading these books and would be very capable of sorting out the logical conundra found within, they did not take it upon themselves to make these texts very clear and reconciled.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>READ THIS:

I'm going to stop myself here because this is getting longwinded and out of hand. the point is, the bible is, whether you believe it is inspired or not, written by the hands of men. If you want to say its a horrible book and should be banned because of what is in it and how many people have done wrong things because of it, then you need to also ban any book that results in a similar outcome. once we get to banning books though, its a slippery slope to another dark age.
be easy

Originally Posted by Dr.J20

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ SOMETHING LONG PLEASE, >>>

The bible does not say this. those leviticus quotes are translations taken out of context and reinterpreted by persons ill-equipped to do such intellectual work, then used selectively to incite anger and abhorrence towards homosexuals. The socio-historical context of Leviticus is just as important as what is written there, and those stories in the Bible have, for a very long time, been understood as teaching parables to help people understand fundamental concepts more easily: like love and respect your fellow man, be honest, be cognizant of your limitations. Yeah with hard work, study, and rational investigation we SHOULD all come to these understandings, but not everybody has been so fortunate to have the amount of wealth required to sit around and ponder this kind of thing. In one of these threads (maybe even this one) someone went down the "is religion natural to man?" line of questioning: in one sense, when man was fighting for his life daily, i'm not real sure whether he had time for the concept of religion, or anything else for that matter--seems like he'd be pretty busy trying to get food water and shelter.
not sure that one went anywhere but the bible doesn't say homosexuality is an abomination--that quote is more along the lines "for a man to lay with another man is an abomination" and, if my study of this isn't too terribly rusty, the proscriptions there are more pointedly about obedience and the protection of the jewish 'tribe.' So, your lambast against Christians falls flat as their claim to the Hebrew Bible usually rests with the fact that Jesus was a Jew and so, since he studied that i'm sure it seemed like a good idea to his followers to include that in the new religion they were going to build around his teachings, even though his teachings were radical "revisions" of those very strict and often contradictory rules of the Hebrew bible. Since they also thought only very learned men would be reading these books and would be very capable of sorting out the logical conundra found within, they did not take it upon themselves to make these texts very clear and reconciled.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>READ THIS:

I'm going to stop myself here because this is getting longwinded and out of hand. the point is, the bible is, whether you believe it is inspired or not, written by the hands of men. If you want to say its a horrible book and should be banned because of what is in it and how many people have done wrong things because of it, then you need to also ban any book that results in a similar outcome. once we get to banning books though, its a slippery slope to another dark age.
be easy

I don't want to ban it, for the very reason you state. There's value to be found in any book, if you look hard enough. Plus, I've never been a fan of censorship in general. I like that people have a tenacious belief in their faith, it can truly be a great thing at times. Frankly, I wish I knew more people who looked at the bible in the same way you do.

Originally Posted by NetGuruINC

I URGE you all to please go to youtube and type in "nde". There is PROOF what happens to us when we die. Go to youtube and type in "nde" which stands for Near Death Experiences and watch and listen to the hundreds of stories from people who have had heart attacks, cancer, car accidents, shot, stabbed, and listen to their stories of what happened to them. There are videos from people all over the world and their experiences ALL coincide with each other. You will see proof that God and Jesus are real, Angels are real, and Hell is real. Everyone needs to check it out seriously...

And these experiences are not all just from Christians, there are stories from atheists, muslims, every type of person walking this earth. Go to youtube and type in "nde"

Dimethyltrytamine, you don't have to get in a car accident to have one of the NDEs.

i got a few stories that i cant explain but got dam thier good one day maybee ill tell you.. lolz

Originally Posted by eye exaggerate

*raises hand* I have a question.

...spiritual practice has been going on for a lot longer than scientific practice has. I hope this something we can agree on. Religion is on in years and 'wise'. Natural science is an adolescent in comparison. This is something we can 'prove' by going for a read down history lane. (Obviously, I don't mean religious fanaticism, thank you.)

Religion is a 'mother and a father' to the masses. I'm getting the impression that scientism is a spoiled kid. (?)

Sorry, I am being as objective as I can. I am not meaning to throw jabs or belittle anyone.

You cannot compare science and religion like that.
Science is about accepting nothing as fact. Building on understandings. A living neverending review of data. Reasoning.
Religion is about faith. Believing despite anything you might hear or see.

In my opinion, Science has no conflict with religion. Religion however, has quite the conflict with science.
Any belief that discourages from using reasoning... I don't know.
Maybe my simple, Taught beliefs - Reasoning = Faith , equation is over simplified, but...

I would to hear more about science being a spoiled kid. I wonder if you mean that in the way I am understanding you.

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