PROOF that GOD Exists......

Originally Posted by afrawfraw

More name calling. So you trolled me then? Look back at your posts. You claimed nothing!!? OK, I get it.

Nope, not claiming anything and you still can't produce your claims of Proof and Fact so you seem to be getting a kick out of trying to belittle me. Think your .sig is big joke? Ya look like a fool, a buffoon. And I never said you were a mental midget. You took the mantel, I offered. The shoe must fit.

Originally Posted by Doer

I gotta agree here. Religion these days has nothing against science. And science these days is not out to disprove religion. Science looks at an obviously Subjective world and calls that Objective research. Religion takes the only Objective knowledge we have, of our own Self and calls that Subjective Experience.

Not a claim? Hmmm.

Originally Posted by Doer

I have no point, except to point out you were raised by your parents into a belief system. You were raised in a secular home. You have strong beliefs "faith is unnatural." That points to doctrine, since no one can know that. And by the same token it seems quite likely your definitions of "empirical evidence and lore" are likewise compromised. There is a very slippery dividing line between these two. Lore can turn out to be science and science can turn out to be lore. We cannot escape nature or nurture.

No claims here. Certainly not claiming I was doctrined into believing "Faith is unnatural." I didn't talk about faith with my Parents until 12. No claims...

Originally Posted by Doer

Well, you define your world as if your parents were not involved in your pre-verbal upbringing. And these statements that you make with such weight of conviction are not facts. Emphasis alone IS!!!! not enough. That's the beef with religion, fancy night gowns for emphasis. And you know very little of the religions and beliefs of other animals as you seem to know very little about this topic. Religion seems quite the natural order of things for humans.

To just deny that fact is somewhat thoughtless, in spite of your secular upbringing, as wonderful as it may have been. Obviously secular humans are made, not born. Yet, Religion has been here "forever." And you don't know what is a religion to humpback whales , do you?

So, you have opinions, only. So what?

"Secular Humans are made, not born." Still no claims folks, move along.

Originally Posted by Doer

It's classic in that I never called you any names and never pointed any fingers. Since religion has been part of the human experience always and there has never been a time when it has not, just stamping your foot and claiming it's unnatural is a joke.

It's like the joke of claiming whales have no religion. You don't know. And now your speech is becoming riled. So, it's a rhetorical device to lash back like this. There is no right fight here.

Just submit your proof that religion is unnatural, if you can. Just restating it is.....not useful?

As for the rest, let us calmly approach it this way. Are you actually saying that indoctrination is not necessary to reject the entire notion of a spirit world? You must have had secular upbring to suggest that, right? How can a baby survive without indoctrination? You don't know that either, do you?

You're beliefs are being challenged, so what? We do that for all non-denominations alike.

Here you accuse me of name calling. I hadn't called you anything. You called me thoughtless though, along with telling me my facts were opinions, and dim ones at that.

Originally Posted by Doer

If one makes up definitions of gods and then accuses others of believing in that definition, again, there is your Subjective Illusion that you call Reality. You assume we all buy it. You wish to assume, with the other self described Atheists, that these oxymoronic juxtapositions are not just self serving pretzel logic. It's a twisty form of rhetoric that echo the other religions. Yes, to me Atheism is another religion of the outer Subjective. It seeks to deny what is proposed, in a rather zelot portrayal of passion. Not religion nor science have anything to do with the Inner Objective Self.

No claims about how Atheists feel, huh? SHEESH...

I don't want to stretch this out, but you're wrong. Unless you were arguing a point you don't hold yourself, and fancy footed to continue the debate. This is trolling.

Originally Posted by afrawfraw

I'm a punk for quoting you in context. I guess I'm a punk then. And I never attacked you. Just in awe that you believe we're not born Atheists and that Atheism is a religion. And yet you stamp your feet and refuse to accept facts, even after being presented by other posters. I don't blame you. Faith ignores all evidence.

You keep taking about all this evidence, as if you have revealed it. You have not. The rest is just personal attacks. You can't say you have proof and then not provide it. Well, you can forget to. But, it you continue to dodge and weave. It looks foolish.

The study was led by Jacqui Woolley, a psychologist at the University of Texas and published in a paper titled Developmental Changes in the Use of Supernatural Explanations for Unusual Events and published in the Journal of Cognition and Culture. It was reported by Tom Rees inEpiphenom. He includes the graphic at right which does a good job of summarizing the findings. [click to enlarge]So it's clear that although we might like supernatural or magic explanations when we are young, they don't come to mind naturally - we have to learn to do that.

I'm sure you have a cute come back for this as well, along with more names.