OK, first off, this thread is going to have a few rules. I know, but I gotta do it. We've had too many threads already that just turn into garbage because everyone is free to post whatever they want. So I'm going to ask everyone who decides to post in this thread to PLEASE FOLLOW THE RULES AND RESPECT THEM.

1. Personal attacks will not be tolerated, this goes for everyone, no exceptions

2. Stay on point

3. Keep in mind the goal of the thread with each post you make

4. Keep your posts limited to one paragraph, and explain everything you are trying to communicate as clearly as possible (imagine you are explaining your opinion to a child)

5. (and this one is very important) Once a point has been made and a counterpoint offered, SOMEONE MUST CONCEDE THAT THEY ARE WRONG! That makes the thread unique, and it shows US ALL where we may have flaws, and gives us a goal to work towards

Alright, so basically this is what I was thinking... Someone asks a question they've had about a belief, I have a million of them myself, stuff that just never made any sense to me in my own mind, stuff I've always been looking for an answer for. So anyone is allowed to pose a question, anyone is allowed to post a reply. The main thing is I'd like to keep on topic and not move to another point before the question has been answered to the askers satisfaction, and someone admits where they may have been wrong in their thinking. We gotta remember guys, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being wrong about something, all of us have been wrong. What is wrong is when you won't admit when you're wrong, when you keep thinking or doing the same thing because you think whatever it is is right. That is the definition of insanity. That's what we want to avoid! We're all guilty of that as well.

So, I'll start.

I pose this question mainly to any believer of the Abrahamic religions.

-Why would God give us this incredible gift of knowledge with the ability to figure out the background of the universe, figure out exactly how things work, what everything is made of, where we come from, but then have all* the information gathered through it contradict what all of the religions say about such questions, and what do you think is the most logical reason to why such a God might punish it's creation for pondering such questions?

*virtually all, ex. 99% of the data collected on evolution agrees with predictions of the theory of evolution, it all compliments eachother

Thanks guys, lets keep this civil and prove that believers and non believers can actually accomplish something other than a 100 page bitch/argue fest!

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"So I picked up some party balloons and a small tube of vaseline, then slippity slip it was in my ass."
-BongJuice

http://www.stevequayle.com/index.html http://www.sacred-texts.com/

Seems like a pretty good source for religious material at first glance, thanks for the post.

One other thing though, I forgot to mention in the OP, I'd like for anyone who responds to post in their own words. We could all go get something to copy/paste right? That's also very important!

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"So I picked up some party balloons and a small tube of vaseline, then slippity slip it was in my ass."
-BongJuice

It's a matter of faith my friend, believe in the good book and those tools you possess become seemingly useless for those particular actions. Why use THOSE tools to answer when you have a much more effective/efficient one? the best tool of all my friend! The good book: The Bible

We were granted those abilities to do other great things, much like we do today! It's just, we were never designed to bother having to question god, because god felt there was no need to, I'm sure. If you believe in god, why would that grotesque leap in logic towards how and why the universe works, matter?

It doooeessnn't silly, GOOD did it, -ha-ha. Seriously though, my question is: How is faith an equally valid pair to logic based through evidence?

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You see things; and you say 'why?' - I dream things that never were: and I say 'Why not?'

Reincarnation - A bunch of amnesic parasitic ghosts trying to reach enlightenment.

Good response DJBox, that's what I pretty much suspected as well.

OK, my question was answered to my satisfaction. Nobody was wrong in this case. (I think the right/wrong rule is probably going to apply when a believer asks an atheist something or vice versa, so if that rule doesn't apply, it's all good)

Moving on. The Current question is (hope you don't mind I added on the bit on the end...);

How is faith an equally valid pair to logic based through evidence? ie. why is faith a good thing?

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"So I picked up some party balloons and a small tube of vaseline, then slippity slip it was in my ass."
-BongJuice

The problem is, religious people don't see faith and logic as a clash, they see them as compliments towards each other, albeit logic isn't the typical strong point of your 'stereotypical' theist, to be fair. Faith in the existence of god is established within truth; the various facets like science logic history,and all the other branches of knowledge concerning the observation of the natural order of the universe. knowledge to assists in discerning the wisdom of the revelation of the scriptures; the bible! reason and revelation. the initiation of faith established in philosophy and science, matured through the articles of faith and found establishment therein through theology and vice versa. The thing I don't like is, rather than seeing the clashing of principal in understanding it's seemingly ignored and hap-hazzardly used as reinforcement. *science solves another mystery!*Says the excited scientist - 'ah yes, isn't god beautiful? how can you not believe?' says the religious heckler. - I would, not wanting to argue semantics, agree. God, as in god being nature and not some sky ghost, IS quite beautiful indeed. Alas, the heckler misses the point entirely were it explained as such.

Heres another question for the readers.

Do you find yourself following faith, reason, or both, or one more than the other? What strengths and weaknesses, in your opinion, do you frequently find within faith and/or reason? Explain in your understanding, within what feasibility or 'reasoning' does faith hold claim to stay in the same grounds as logic and again, reason? From what I've seen it is not fruit of any evidence, deduction or structure, just whimsical hopes and best wishes in my opinion, yet I transgress, answer away.

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You see things; and you say 'why?' - I dream things that never were: and I say 'Why not?'

Reincarnation - A bunch of amnesic parasitic ghosts trying to reach enlightenment.

Would someone kindly please translate that into Hippiespeak?

edit: Thanks!

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peace and love for the living at the Cannabis-Church.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref...43&ref=profile

faith is rule-based, like thou shall not..... blah blah blah
and it works pretty well for some folks - some people who quietly enjoy their faith are loving and responsible
personally, i prefer a reason based approach to life
just makes more sense to me
as soon as someone convinces me they have met God, logic will insist that I have faith

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"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." T.S. Eliott

He didn't. Man took it from the tree of knowledge. Knowledge is a sin against god.

(Neat to think about it that way huh....?)
[/sarcasm]

It isn't. Faith is belief in something that cannot be proven (now or ever, not to be confused with belief in a scientific theory that could plausibly be proven someday, emphasis on plausible). Believing in what isn't real is dangerous.

faith is not rule based. religion yes, but not faith...

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" The stone that the builder refuse, shall always be the head cornerstone..." ~Bob Marley http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal...-hawaiian.html