and you imply I'm Right.., When I didn't claim to be Right.., But explained sincerely why the Proof we have is Proof enough..

and You wished to See, that Braz if always Right, because he take every position... I took every position in Two POsts.. That is what you Saw..

Told you it's always what You Wish to acknowledge, I can NOt make you see That.. You Do!!

Time, Effort, Sincerity... Wasted!!

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"He was dead just long enough for the murder rap to blow over. And then he had lunch." - Kujan

hahaha, If I could rep you this soon again I would.

I had to simply stop responding. Went out for a smoke, made some phone calls I had to, came back pretty baked and laughed at the responses.

Thread /closed]

Seriously though Braz, third person? every position? you have the opinion of everybody in this thread without retaining any understanding of anything said.

I think sunshine has it more correct then you do. Quite the shame, I thought from our previous discussions that you got things.

Philosophy of Life
I see now, that through all that you either saw nothing, or refuse to admit you understand what you seemingly did.

I laminate the message to you that I presented before to all those previous holding the same vains.

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You see things; and you say 'why?' - I dream things that never were: and I say 'Why not?'

Reincarnation - A bunch of amnesic parasitic ghosts trying to reach enlightenment.

But doesn't everyone know that the Bible is the ultimate proof of GOD?? How can that evidence be refuted? It is the word of God, therefore it must be true, right?

Also, think about all the martyrs who have died for the God, such as Jesus and his disciples. Clearly so many people wouldn't have chosen to die to "trick" the rest of us, would they?

The Bible has also been carefully translated from many different languages into what we have today, so its pretty safe to say that its pretty accurate right? (aside from the revisions in the 10 commandments the Catholic Church made)

About the Sabbath... Why would an all powerful, omniscient deity need to "rest" after only 6? And why would something/someone who is omniscient have any concept of time whatsoever?

Why didn't the Native Americans have prophets sent from the Christian God describing the Ten Commandments to them? Why is the Christian God the "real" god, whereas the many other "gods" aren't real?

WHY THE FUCK DID MY PARENTS PRETEND SANTA WAS REAL AND CAME FOR JESUS' BIRTHDAY AND ONCE I FOUND OUT HE WASN'T TRY TO CONTINUE THE JOKE THAT CHRISTIAN' BELIEFS ARE TRUE?

Just some questions.... But for some actual thoughts...

On the "love" thing stated by Brazko...
Even the feeling of love can be scientifically proven to exist, in a way. It activates parts of the brain (which can be seen in various scans of the brain) when a person is feeling different emotions, such as love or anger. Prayer or faith DO NOT show up in any way that is comparable to feeling love IN ANY SCAN WHATSOEVER. Furthermore, many studies have been done to show that praying DOES NOT increase the rate of recovery in any person that has undergone surgery. It betters the mental state of patients, but there is no divine intervention, which goes against the very well known statement from the Bible, "Ask and you shall receive", which, IMO, discredits the Bible, as does the fact that people supposedly lived to be 900 years old, the earth was flooded for 40 days and a man on a wooden ship got a vast majority of all the animals on board so he could repopulate the earth, and after the earth was flooded, Noah magically was able to change the color of skin of some of his children and spread them to the Americas (Native/South/Central Americans), Asia (Russians, Asians), and Africa (obviously Africans)

This may be an insane, nonsensical rant, but I just spent a number of days "evaluating" religious seminars where I had to hold back these thoughts on the matter. Feel free to bash what I had to say.
*Edit: ...so long as you have a way to make me sound wrong, unless your proof is something stupid, such as you feel God exists so he does.

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"Baby, I'm a star. Shit, I'm above a star. And now I done got so high I did forgotten who you are."

I dunno if it's intentional trolling, or he really doesn't get it, but you'll find that Braz likes to support himself with points he doesn't understand.

It was pretty funny when he said that science can not prove god.
Well, duh. Obviously there's no proof without evidence.

He keeps arguing against science, but then has used science in his arguments, misunderstood what was being said, or phrased it so badly that it might as well have been gibberish.

It's like arguing with a parrot. Sure, the words are there, but the parrot doesn't understand the crap it's repeating.

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Religion. Bravely turning its back on reality one universe at a time.

Gee you picked up on that...... he holds every position but understands none of them!

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...out
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You haven't countered nothing, because the points you made are not valid, you are basing your counter on information you don't understand, regardless the accuracy of the information, because it does not state what you are saying.. (Brazko)

This is gonna turn into another thread just like the others, everyone will repeat their opinion over and over with the same people arguing the same old shit on multiple threads, lets hope not anyway.

But never the less I will give my opinion on the subject at hand, The burden of proof has to lay with the one making the statement. As in a court of law the burden of proof is to prove someones guilt not for someone to prove their innocents, I know its not like this but its supposed to be as which is why some is Innocent until proven guilty. I feel it is the same for anything, for example if CJ says there is no god I expect him to back up his statement with some evidence, the same if someone else say Babs claims there is a god, back it up with something credible (Not quoting you guys here just using your names for the hell of it)

I can gather that this thread is rearly asking where does the burden of proof lay with the claim of is there or isn't there a god. I would have to say the burden lays with the people who claim there to be a god. Most atheists do not claim there is no god, most will claim they do not believe in the man made religions god's but when it comes down to 'is there a god' (leaving the religions out of it) most would say they simply don't know, even Dawkins as you all know is probably the most famous Atheist there is has said "I can only rearly claim to be 9/10 Atheist, as It can not be proven there is no god but I lean to the inclination there is none." (Not correct word for word but that was his general jist) which I'm sure would fit in more with the Agnostic views, not much between the two as far as I can see, both sets tend to get put in the same basket. So as Atheists/Agnostics claim they simply don't know then surely it is down to the people of 'faith' to prove their claims of 'there is a god and its my god' (according to their faith/religion)

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"Dope will get you through times of no money, better than money will get you through times of no dope" (Freewheeling Franklin)

One caveat..... stating no belief in an invisible guiding hand G*D is not an outrageous claim. It's a bit more self evident than the alternative.

Outrageous claims truly demands a higher level of proof.

Again, I think the word atheist is a loaded term. You would find that most atheists won't simply decide that there can be NO G*D.... (I.E. creation point originator).
Like in my case, it's much more likely the response would be ... I don't believe in the g*D of organized religion.. the personal G*D.

Atheists believe in true free will. Thumpers do not.

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...out
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You haven't countered nothing, because the points you made are not valid, you are basing your counter on information you don't understand, regardless the accuracy of the information, because it does not state what you are saying.. (Brazko)

The bible's story and all religious text portray a cognitive Meaning of truth from human observation and experience...You didn't need a microscope to see an atom, when you saw a body decompose ashes to ashes and dust to dust...we just evolved enough to produce equipment to watch the atom decompose into quantum physics and then into nothing... Santa Claus isn't real, but prove to me how lil boys and girls get gifts all around the world if he doesn't exist, this is the idiocracy of your approach to understanding the meaning of God.., and Science is proof of your still inherent incompetence...

My statement for the week, I really saw no reason to even make this one..Its not like any of you are competent to overstand it anyway...Silly Monkeys

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"He was dead just long enough for the murder rap to blow over. And then he had lunch." - Kujan

don't worry.... that didn't even resemble a statement.

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...out
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You haven't countered nothing, because the points you made are not valid, you are basing your counter on information you don't understand, regardless the accuracy of the information, because it does not state what you are saying.. (Brazko)

Act 1

Three men are standing near you on a street corner. One calls you over.

The first one says, "My name is Religion, and I have a god in my pocket."

The second one says "My name is Philosophy, and I don't have a god in my pocket, but it's something to think about."

The third one says "My name is Athiesm and there are no gods in my pocket."

On who does the burden of proof lie the heaviest? It seems fairly obvious doesn't it?

-------

Act 2

You ask all three for proof.

Atheism turns out his pocket and shrugs. "See?"

Philosophy turns out his pocket, and says "It's entirely possible that I was incorrect about which pocket the god may or may not be in. Let's consider that some more, shall we?"

Religion says "I will not turn out my pocket. It's enough that we simply believe in and worship the god in my pocket. Here, take this book. It will tell you all about the god in my pocket and how real it is. It's also hungry and needs money. Just put it right into my pocket. A little to the left. More. Oh yes. You're under 16, right?"

----

Act 3

Religion enacts anti-blasphemy laws so that you can never question the existence of the god in his pocket again.

Philosophy and Atheism die in prison after refusing to fellate Religion for a pardon.

The End. ("No Rapture" Version)

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Religion. Bravely turning its back on reality one universe at a time.