Atheist Manifesto - Page 10

TheBrutalTruth · #91 06-16-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleblood

Just to take a step back...

I love that a thread originally meant to convey the ideas of non-religion has evolved to such topics as actually philosophizing about the way humans are meant to live and the problems we have caused by meandering away from the meaning in life and essentially the embrace of greed and corruption that has polluted our host Earth.

I wonder if religious discussions ever venture this far with intellectual thought.

How wonderfully bright, simple, and smart the world would be without religion. Our species does not need to debate over the purpose or the correctness of life. Instead, we should debate over the methods with which we live and how to make these methods more friendly to our host ecosystems. Oh, the potential.

Not necessarily, a great many scientists believe in a higher power, maybe not the church's higher power, but a higher power nonetheless.

Of course, I believe in a higher power as well, I just don't like the dual scams of organized religion and government. Both of which are built upon the premise of being there when you need help, and usually aren't... unless you are at the bottom, and then they want to help hold you down not help build you up.

Hayduke · #92 06-16-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrutalTruth

Not necessarily, a great many scientists believe in a higher power, maybe not the church's higher power, but a higher power nonetheless.

I suppose it depends on who you include as "scientists". I still think the statement is a huge exaggeration.

I believe in a higher power also...the Sun.

TeaTreeOil · #93 06-17-2009, 03:15 AM

Lets all pray to the law of gravity!

bicycle racer · #94 06-17-2009, 08:23 AM

einstein was known to in no way be an atheist i would say hes a scientist. most quantum physicists are not atheist though steven hawkings is atheist. it seems when you get to the higher levels of quantum physics most are not atheist its almost impossible in my eyes to study the workings of the universe and be atheist. someone can be intelligent in one way but lack critical thinking in other aspects of life. as with most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle in the grey.

TeaTreeOil · #95 06-17-2009, 10:49 AM

Einstein, I'd say, was at least a weak atheist(his view on a 'personal god' and religions in general are quite clear, he regarded them all as childish superstitions). He has some funny quotes on religion. Though most scientists seem to stick with agnosticism(which is basically the same as weak atheism), which is more than fair.

Any scientist who claims otherwise is probably not worth listening to. As they've failed to apply the scientific method.

He clearly stated he did not believe in a personal god, souls, heaven/hell, divine miracles, or any sort of god which plays any role in human life, fate, or destiny. Not that "I'm unsure of whether there is/are god(s) or not", which is true agnosticism. That's not even close to what Einstein ever said.

One could say... that God to Einstein was Nature. Laws of the universe, matter and energy(existence), and spirit(thought, actions, morals, ethics, etc.).

He even claimed belief in Spinoza's God(which is not really a god at all, but a philosophy): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinozism

PadawanBater · #96 06-17-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeaTreeOil

Einstein, I'd say, was at least a weak atheist(his view on a 'personal god' and religions in general are quite clear, he regarded them all as childish superstitions). He has some funny quotes on religion. Though most scientists seem to stick with agnosticism(which is basically the same as weak atheism), which is more than fair.

Any scientist who claims otherwise is probably not worth listening to. As they've failed to apply the scientific method.

He clearly stated he did not believe in a personal god, souls, heaven/hell, divine miracles, or any sort of god which plays any role in human life, fate, or destiny. Not that "I'm unsure of whether there is/are god(s) or not", which is true agnosticism. That's not even close to what Einstein ever said.

One could say... that God to Einstein was Nature. Laws of the universe, matter and energy(existence), and spirit(thought, actions, morals, ethics, etc.).

He even claimed belief in Spinoza's God(which is not really a god at all, but a philosophy): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinozism

Exactly right, Einstein did not believe in a personal God that intervened in human affairs, let alone the God of the bible...

Even if he did, that wouldn't mean anything about if God does exist or not. Exactly how saying he doesn't believe in God doesn't say anything about the existence of God. That's just one mans opinion.

Also, I would completely disagree with the statement that most (or even a majority percentage) physicists believe in God. (the way Einstein perceived God is not the same as what regular people refer to God as). Plenty of tests have shown that the higher the education level of an individual, the less religious they tend to be. Do you have any evidence to support that statement, BR?

Hayduke · #97 06-17-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bicycle racer

einstein was known to in no way be an atheist i would say hes a scientist. most quantum physicists are not atheist though steven hawkings is atheist. it seems when you get to the higher levels of quantum physics most are not atheist its almost impossible in my eyes to study the workings of the universe and be atheist. someone can be intelligent in one way but lack critical thinking in other aspects of life. as with most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle in the grey.

To believe in quantum physics takes faith. It is all very difficult to test, and therefore for me hard to swallow. I am not saying that they are wrong about everything, I just think that a lot of physics will in time be proved wrong.

This is why I questioned the "scientists". Many fields that fall under the umbrella of science, are more pseudo-science and philosophy...Psychology using the emergent field of neurology to justify itself as anything more than several similar, yet all conflicting ideas (not theory!) on human behavior. The guys who make the "It's not creationism...it's 'intelligent design'" propaganda videos that are commonly distributed by the pre-med students to the real biology students, always have some weird title like Prof of BioSociology or they are Physicist of some shade or another.

My physics professor was Mormon and had like 8 kids.

bicycle racer · #98 06-17-2009, 06:40 PM

i said nothing about personal gods or religion in any way and the scientific method you speak of you should know from previous posts that im not religious or naive as to the ways of the world. that said i stand by my statements and have read books written by einstein years ago he was a much more creative abstract thinking man than your average scientist. i think we as humans read the same words in different ways to suit what we prefer and is comfortable for our beliefs be it atheist religious or in between. im very science based but i have had my own observations and experiences i was not raised religious and was atheist for the first 20 years of my life i see my previous beliefs as childish now. there are some things that are absolutely unexplainable regarding the universe and will never be this is what leads highly intelligent individuals to be able to reconsider things regarding the complexities of our situation as humans. put simply faith is silly some things i know but cannot explain in words the human spoken language makes it impossible. i strongly think spiritual understanding or awareness is genetic as much as any other skill in life either mental or physical. peace

PadawanBater · #99 06-17-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bicycle racer

i said nothing about personal gods or religion in any way and the scientific method you speak of you should know from previous posts that im not religious or naive as to the ways of the world. that said i stand by my statements and have read books written by einstein years ago he was a much more creative abstract thinking man than your average scientist. i think we as humans read the same words in different ways to suit what we prefer and is comfortable for our beliefs be it atheist religious or in between. im very science based but i have had my own observations and experiences i was not raised religious and was atheist for the first 20 years of my life i see my previous beliefs as childish now. there are some things that are absolutely unexplainable regarding the universe and will never be this is what leads highly intelligent individuals to be able to reconsider things regarding the complexities of our situation as humans. put simply faith is silly some things i know but cannot explain in words the human spoken language makes it impossible. i strongly think spiritual understanding or awareness is genetic as much as any other skill in life either mental or physical. peace

What kinds of things are you talking about?

turtleblood · #**100** 06-18-2009, 02:13 PM

"Just to take a step back...

I love that a thread originally meant to convey the ideas of non-religion has evolved to such topics as actually philosophizing about the way humans are meant to live and the problems we have caused by meandering away from the meaning in life and essentially the embrace of greed and corruption that has polluted our host Earth.

I wonder if religious discussions ever venture this far with intellectual thought.

How wonderfully bright, simple, and smart the world would be without religion. Our species does not need to debate over the purpose or the correctness of life. Instead, we should debate over the methods with which we live and how to make these methods more friendly to our host ecosystems. Oh, the potential."

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrutalTruth

Not necessarily, a great many scientists believe in a higher power, maybe not the church's higher power, but a higher power nonetheless.

Huh? When did I say anything about scientists or their beliefs? And this "great many" you speak of... most of them don't have all-too "scientific" degrees, like Hayduke said. Plus, even if you consider these pseudo-scientists just as valid as the rest of the scientific world, they still only make up a tiny fraction of the scientific community... and I mean tiny.