FOX News Threatens Sheen & Cuban Not to Make Film

this is very condensed, very simplified.

the most solid believers in the conspiracy theory, the ones who have really done their studies like my friend, believe there was a paradigm shift in the power of the ultra insiders, Illuminati or whatever you want to call them..

they didn't want to kill 25,000, that's why there really were fire drills in the towers just before 9/11 with practice evacuations and there really are multiple confirmations of "mysterious maintenance men" having entire floors closed to the public the week before 9/11 also. their (Ill. pls.) strategy with this whole thing (supposedly) is to make the US appear weak, they want our country to be perceived as vulnerable to the rogue states like DPRK, Iran, the USSR (which does still exist, though not on paper.)

they conjured up this whole "Islamic terror" thing so as to send the US on a "cat herding" mission which is ultimately un-winnable but will however result in long term dramatic improvements to our military system. they wanted to "purge" the US's aging military machinery and have it more advanced than the cold-war era hardware we've been sitting on. this is in preparation for the ultimate show down, the one between the US and China/USSR. all the oil stuff, the islam stuff, it's all distraction and the American public is eating it up. while all this middle east stuff goes on, the union between the US and Canada and Mexico towards forming a new North American Union is in high gear...ie. Bush's comments the other day.



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To a certain extent there is a game of "bait and switch" afoot!
The encroachment of US sovereignty by means of this insidious North American Super highway is cause for concern and angst.

Originally Posted by 7xstall

anyway, i just wanted to mention that there are point by point rebuttals to the article you posted because i don't know if you've seen them.

Hi 7x, yes I have seen these so called rebuttals....I do not consider the ones I have seen to be credible.....I have heard Alex Jones on the radio .... (Coast to Coast AM) COAST TO COAST AM WITH GEORGE NOORY
I do not find him to be credible.
You may have seen some evidence that I have not?
For anyone interested in a lively debate on this issue:
YouTube - 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 1

Vi's point focuses on the true weakness of these conspiracy theories...
If the US Government were as nefarious and malignantly evil as suggested by these theories, why is ANYONE left to blow any whistles?....It does not make sense to me. Certainly this monstrous government would have the capability to squash ANYONE who was to tell the "truth"
Besides this point Bushco is out of office soon.....will the new Administration comply with this established, criminal behavior?

yes Wavels, reliable sources are very hard to find and i do not believe Alex Jones is more than 50% credible either. if you sift through the obvious BS you will eventually arrive at less obvious BS and so on, this friend of mine is very good at this, very steadfast. we worked together for a couple years around the time of 9/11. after this i'll paste in his initial response when i mentioned the PM article in an email exchange we were having last year, you can discard or ponder.


what you and ViRedd point out as weakness is actually the profound strength of the conspiracy, if it exists. i've grown weed right out in the open and no one has seen it. i used to hide my peace pipe on the ledge of trim above the inside of my closet doors, when cops raided my room as a teen they found a couple bags and weren't satisfied so they tore the room apart, one of them was standing directly under my pipe while he asked "where is your pipe?" i laughed at him and said, "pipe for what?" they never found it and it was the least well hidden thing in my room.

you get my point.

from a conspiracy POV, the administration isn't really involved, at least not directly. he wouldn't dirty his hands with this, nor would the brokers allow him to so caustically tarnish his image. the real power brokers aren't in the spot light, they aren't even familiar to plebeians like us. they let just enough "witnesses" go and tell the "truth" to make themselves appear wacko and then everyone will write them off. the truth literally "sets them free".


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Yeah, I read this a long time ago. It is a whitewash. For starters, the article was written by Ben Chertoff, the cousin of Michael Chertoff over Homeland Security (confirmed by phone call to Ben's mom). Second, the CEO of PM, Victor Ganzi, is good friends with Jeb Bush's wife and on the same board of directors for Columbia University. PM has long been know as a front organzation and Victor has been involved in numerous coverups, 9/11 wasn't the first. Here is an extensive list of points debunking the PM piece on 9/11:

Pod:
Numerous engineering anaylsis were conducted by major researchers in the U.S. and abroad, on the photo of the plane hitting the south tower, and it was verified to not be a part of any 767.

Stand Down Orders:
Popular MEchanics need not try to debunk this anymore since the release of the norad tapes. It has now been proven that none of the jets were scrambled until after all the planes hit the ground and Cheney refusing to scramble.

FLight 175's WIndows:
This proves nothing. Of course a plane hit the tower. The wreckage shown in their picture does not confirm it was a commercial, in lieu of military jet either.

Intercepts not routine:
A flat out lie. Norad intercepted 67 planes between 9-2000 and 6-2001.

WTC Collapse:
Scores of firefighters, 911 operators, secretaries from nearby buildings, cable and local news reporters, audible video/audio captured from amateur video reported to hear multiple explosions going off. Home video showing on tripods tremble the video as the ground shakes minutes before the collapse.

Take a look at this photo and tell me it pancaked down (http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...tc1cons1.html). The 47 steel columns are several inches thick and over-engineered. For a pancake to happen, every single connection around the entire interior of the building would have to break simultaneously. Photos show some of the floors already had collapsed from the impact and were resting on the floor below them at an angle. Metal becomes a heat sink when subjected to high heat and anyone who has ever put together a Heathkit or soldered a circuit component knows the value of a good heat sink. Black smoke is indicative of an oxygen starved fire and most of the fuel burned up during impact. Only office furniture, carpet, paper, ceiing tile, etc were burining.

Puffs of Dust (squibs):
This is classic for almost all demolition. If pancacking were true, the windows would have blown out consistently all the way down from internal pressure, but did not. Metal girders are photographed blowing sideways and there is a 45 degree arc of debri all the way down followed by a pryoclastic flow of dust which follows all explosive demolitions.

Seismic Graph:
This varies depending on who you ask.

WTC7:
This building had two puny little fires in it near the top. Watch the video and view some photos. However, the building fell from the bottom up like every single demolition ever does - watch it. Additionally, Larry Silverstein, the WTC owner, admitted to "pulling" this building in a PBS interview. Additionally in another documentary, popular mechanics did a documentary on building demolitions and documented "pull" is a demolition term for a building demolition.

Liquid, molten steel was removed from below WTC7. The only way to get liquid, molten steel to do this is to subject it to heat over 5000 degrees. No plane hit this tower. Thermite does reach termperatures much higher than this. A thermal analysis 2 weeks after 9/11 still has ground zero extremely hot.

Big Plane, Small Hole - Pentagon:
Have you ever seen the video of an F-4 Phantom (historically strong, heavy jet) hitting a 5 floot thick, steel re-inforced concrete wall in an air force test video? It disintegrates into dust. No commercial jet, even with enough inertia can punch through 9.5 feet of steel reinforced concrete and even make any kind of a hole on the other end. Hey, the two planes that struck the WTC didn't even pop out on the other side and had far less to go through! Why won't the pentagon release video of the plane clearly hitting the pentagon? It obviously has it recorded. There are cameras documented everywhere around the building.

Intact windows at pentagon:
Blast proof is different than impact proof. Pre-collapse photos clearly show minimum damage to the surrounding area. THis is another "straw man" tactic.

Flight 77 debris:
This is not debatable since the release of the Official NTSB flight data recorder animation(American 77 Final Maneuver - Google Video) which has the plane well above the light poles before impact. Plane debris is shown on the ground in front of the Pentagon. It appears to be from a commercial airliner, how it got there is a mystery yet to be solved. Some times the best place to store stuff is right in front ahead of an event. No airliner could hit 7 light poles an continue to fly with any sort of wing.

Flight 93:
This plane left an 8 mile debris field and the engine was found over a mile (not 300 yards) from the crash site (shown by FOX news once).

F-16 Pilot:
Their word against ours.

Video of the Oklahoma City bombing has never been released. Our government has a history of imperialism and plans for war including the Northwoods documents, Gulf of Tonkin and Pearl Harbor, now proven to be a pretext for WWII for starters. I have two volumes of information printed out about what is going on in the gov and it is scary. The UN has recently presented a cultural diversity award to a foreign leader (Karimov in Uzbekestan) who actively boils people to death for torture and is good friends with Bush - numerous photos of them shaking hands and talking. I could spends days around the clock divluging information i have found and verified, but alas I have to leave it here.

Conspiracy theories are not a new phenomenon.....


If the US is Imperialistic, it is the most benign form of imperialism the world has ever known!

There is a tremendous leap of faith required in order for one to see boogie men where there are none...I think there is a mindset and world view reliant upon the perception of the US as the horrible evil entity this POV encourages.
Self fulfillment on parade!

A much broader perspective of conspiracy theories is examined in this excellent essay..... (IMO)!

This Is Not Your Father's Conspiracy Theory

The operational execution and secrecy of the conspiratorial plotters required for an attack of this magnitude is beyond the realm of fiction. Such a conspiracy involving scores, perhaps hundreds of operatives has never been done without a single leak, defection, or early detection. In fact, the historical record of nearly every conspiracy, especially those carried out either by the State or by individuals working against the State has witnessed the uncovering of the plot, often by leaks, betrayal, change of heart among the plotters, and pure luck by those targeted for assassination and such. No actual conspiracy, from Guy Fawkes to Pearl Harbor (Japanese mini-sub was detected and sunk just shortly before the attack) to Watergate to even the 9/11 attacks has ever gone completely undetected or been so perfectly concealed that detection was impossible. It was the folly of men in the cases of Pearl Harbor and September 11, 2001 that allowed the attacks to occur. Had slightly more attention been given to reports of an enemy mini-sub being sunk by a US destroyer or of blips on the radar screen of an Army radar outpost just outside Pearl Harbor respectively, it is quite possible that USAAF and Naval aircraft could have intercepted the incoming first wave of Japanese aircraft that December morning. Had the FBI and CIA been allowed under the law to share intelligence, had more attention been given to reports of young Arab men taking flying lessons, it is possible that the 9/11 plotters could have been stopped. The point here is that a perfect conspiratorial operation is a near total impossibility. To believe that something as massive as a conspiracy to bring down enormous buildings, first by staging a passenger plane assault and then following that feat with a perfectly timed, controlled demolition of those same buildings, is to believe in the tooth fairy, trolls, and hobgoblins.
Summary excerpted from:
American Thinker: This Is Not Your Father's Conspiracy Theory