Psychologist Recommends Refusing to Treat Vets Suffering from PTSD

Dankdude · #1 05-21-2008, 10:44 AM

By Marie Cocco, Washington Post Writers Group. Posted May 20, 2008.

This appalling denial of care to wounded service men and women is part of a larger health system that's failing all of us.

WASHINGTON -- The comment was outrageous, but it was not the least bit surprising. A psychologist responsible for assessing returning war veterans for post-traumatic stress disorder -- a psychological ailment that could entitle them to monthly disability payments -- told staff members not to diagnose the illness because to do so would increase the government's costs.

"Given that we are having more and more compensation-seeking veterans, I'd like to suggest that you refrain from giving a diagnosis of PTSD straight out," the psychologist at a Department of Veterans Affairs center in Texas wrote in an e-mail. She suggested diagnosing a less severe disorder that would not carry the greater long-term disability costs.

The correspondence was made public by VoteVets.org and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, two groups that have dogged the Bush administration about our latest national disgrace: the shoddy care and bureaucratic callousness shown toward the warriors who are returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with life-altering wounds of the body and spirit.

Of course, the morally indefensible missive was repudiated by higher-ups in the Department of Veterans Affairs as soon as it was revealed last week. And of course, the persistent congressional outcry over the treatment of veterans -- not to mention the onrushing election season -- makes it more likely than not that some temporary alleviation of the pain and suffering vets endure in a system that is supposed to be serving them will be addressed. Somehow, some day, that is.

That bit of politically induced relief for vets, should it come, does not change the underlying sentiment of the message. Because at bottom, it is a demoralizing reminder of the way the U.S. health care system works for just about everyone.

Certainly, the government agency in charge of caring for veterans is not supposed to behave this way, under the law or any standard of conscience.

In truth, the mind-set mirrors the unconscionable standard of the health insurance industry's thinking that the rest of us must endure -- and from which neither leading candidate for president promises much relief.

The industry's term for paying a claim is "medical loss." This is a disturbingly blunt but perfectly accurate reflection of reality: To make a profit, an insurer must take in more money than it pays out in claims.

Denying payment on claims, or strictly limiting payments even for the most obvious or debilitating medical conditions, is how the industry stays financially viable.

"I was told repeatedly that I was not denying care, I was simply denying payment," Linda Peeno, a doctor and former managed-care medical claims officer testified before Congress in 1996. A video clip of her testimony was included in Michael Moore's 2007 documentary "Sicko," the story of how the American health insurance system really works -- or rather, doesn't -- for most people.

The slip-up at the veterans' health agency comes at a propitious time, because neither of the two men likely to become president next year would do anything to change the type of thinking it revealed. Democrat Barack Obama relies on the current, if uneasy -- and increasingly unworkable -- partnership between the insurance industry and employers to expand coverage. But Obama would not make universal coverage mandatory and so insurers would still be able to cherry-pick among those it really wants to insure (the healthiest, and therefore the cheapest) and those it doesn't (the sickest and most expensive).

Republican John McCain's answer is far worse. He would effectively break the link between employers and the insurance industry, and give individuals a tax credit with which to buy a policy on their own -- a purchase they would make at the mercy of insurers. If you liked President Bush's plan to privatize Social Security and move toward a do-it-yourself retirement system, you'll love McCain's do-it-yourself answer to the insurance crisis.

But of course, no one can really do it himself because the whole idea of private insurance is to spread risk broadly. That's why employers are able to purchase policies more cheaply than can individuals: The expensive employee whose child has cancer is offset by the cheaper employee who is as fit as a marathon runner.

The psychology of the cost-conscious official at the Texas veterans' medical facility is the psychology that controls the health care system for all of us. If we are outraged at the hint that it might be applied to wounded service men and women, we should also be angry that it is applied every day to the rest of us.

medicineman · #2 05-21-2008, 10:52 AM

Exactly.....................

may · #3 05-21-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicineman

Exactly.....................

Is that what happened to you med?

It was about 6 years before I worked most all of it out of my system, although some of it was also my youth, and had night terrors 2-5 times a year for another 10 years, As long as I would get out on a lake, river or in the woods [I always liked to spend as much time as I could in this way anyway] I was ok. Just being in a place that I love without people would clean me out.
I also think that taking money for such shit could have crippeled me and I may not have recovered and I truly believe this, but I can't speak for others.

I also have never said any of this to anyone ever, although the wife being there knew of the terrors.

As for me I have never asked for nor wanted anything from the goverment except to be left alone.

Lacy · #4 05-21-2008, 11:43 AM

I can totally appreciate what you are saying because I would be exactly the same way. Just leave me the f*ck alone!!!!!!!

But in saying all of that....many others need not only medical attention but some human compassion, and to deny these people, who served their own country, I personally think is discusting and I real slap in the face for these heroes.

Wow. I don't often post in the politics section but this thread caught my eye. Its really too bad that society in general doesn't treat and accept mental disorders the same as physical ones. There is undeniable an enormous amount of pain with ptsd and other fear and anxiety disorders.

Very sad to read but not surprizing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by may

Is that what happened to you med?

It was about 6 years before I worked most all of it out of my system, although some of it was also my youth, and had night terrors 2-5 times a year for another 10 years, As long as I would get out on a lake, river or in the woods [I always liked to spend as much time as I could in this way anyway] I was ok. Just being in a place that I love without people would clean me out.
I also think that taking money for such shit could have crippeled me and I may not have recovered and I truly believe this, but I can't speak for others.

I also have never said any of this to anyone ever, although the wife being there knew of the terrors.

As for me I have never asked for nor wanted anything from the goverment except to be left alone.

Dankdude · #5 05-21-2008, 11:47 AM

Human Compassion is something that 90% of hard core right wingers lack in abundance.... They just play lip service to it.... Compassionate conservatives my ass.

pandabear · #6 05-21-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankdude

Human Compassion is something that 90% of hard core right wingers lack in abundance.... They just play lip service to it.... Compassionate conservatives my ass.

Dank if you were compassionate you would sell the computer your typing on and save the life of a baby gurl in africa who is just now on the edge of death while I type this.

but you wont, therefore she will die in agony shortly.

I could save so many lives just by selling a few things i dont really need. But i dont do it, i just let them die. I have no illusions of what I, and you are

only difference between you and me is that your a Hypocrate

but dont worry everyone is barring a mother teresa and ghandi and the like.

anyway, dont ever forget people, your greed for matirial possetions prevents you from saving the lives of agonizing little gurls and boys and infants who are dieing in thier own feces covered in flies right at this very moment

let us not pretend we are somthing other than selfish killers

its funny though, if i saw little gurl dieing here in my office I would do everything in my power and wealth to save her. But since shes not in front of me, I can let her die without a thought.

the world has always been a very beautiful place, it is also a very ugly place. If you forget that, dont worry, you will be reminded of it very soon.

this message goes for the "so called" bleeding hearts, and the "so called" conservative "christians" who suposedly are god faring people.

The guy who took this picture became famous for it, he won the Nobel prize for it. Everywhere he went people asked him what happend to that poor child.

Finally he blew his brains out

because he didnt know what had happend to the child, he had just taken the picture and left

Dankdude · #7 05-21-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandabear

Dank if you were compassionate you would sell the computer your typing on and save the life of a baby gurl in africa who is just now on the edge of death while I type this.

but you wont, therefore she will die in agony shortly.

I could save so many lives just by selling a few things i dont really need. But i dont do it, i just let them die. I have no illusions of what I, and you are

only difference between you and me is that your a Hypocrate

but dont worry everyone is barring a mother teresa and ghandi and the like.

anyway, dont ever forget people, your greed for matirial possetions prevents you from saving the lives of agonizing little gurls and boys and infants who are dieing in thier own feces covered in flies right at this very moment

let us not pretend we are somthing other than selfish killers

Really, Just what am I?
You actually think that I care about material possessions?
Do you actually Know what I do with my disposable Income?
If you must know, I spend every spare dime of my money Keeping my Mother alive (she is a critical Heart patient) you piece of shit.
Here is my salute to you and your ilk.... Fuck you, and bite me on the hairy part of my ass.

may · #8 05-21-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacy

I can totally appreciate what you are saying because I would be exactly the same way. Just leave me the f*ck alone!!!!!!!

But in saying all of that....many others need not only medical attention but some human compassion, and to deny these people, who served their own country, I personally think is discusting and I real slap in the face for these heroes.

Wow. I don't often post in the politics section but this thread caught my eye. Its really too bad that society in general doesn't treat and accept mental disorders the same as physical ones. There is undeniable an enormous amount of pain with ptsd and other fear and anxiety disorders.

Very sad to read but not surprizing.

I am not bitter nor do I want or can I think of a reason for anyone to be sad for me, my problem just made it harder to deal with people from the anger I had inside.

The people that I know 4 who have gotten help are all crippled one couldn't be helped back and knowing him and his family well I can say that he wasn't stable before he went. The three others seem to want people to feel sorry for them and the use of this has seemed to crippled them and I know 2 of them weren't in combat or at least not as their job. At least 5 were in support for every 1 in combat.
The three that I know of that were in real combat all seem normal though one does drink way to much not that the others don't drink.
I think some people are weak willed/minded and some are strong willed/minded, you need the drive to go forward.
Although little can be drawn from what I know.
Please understand that I do care, I think more than most and I fear that some will be crippled and little can be done.

pandabear · #9 05-21-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankdude

Really, Just what am I?
You actually think that I care about material possessions?
Do you actually Know what I do with my disposable Income?
If you must know, I spend every spare dime of my money Keeping my Mother alive (she is a critical Heart patient) you piece of shit.
Here is my salute to you and your ilk.... Fuck you, and bite me on the hairy part of my ass.

dont try to change the subject my friend, i clearly hit a note, since what i posted is irrefutable and everyone knows it.

disposable Income, says nothing but what your opinion of whats disposable really is. So dont try to act so high and mighty, realise you and I are just a dirty little selfish spec.

im not saying you dont do good things, im saying if you have more than meals and a modest habitat dont go around acting like you are such a selfless person

you are greedy like all the rest specially me. if not you would sell all your erb right now and send it to the starving. dont smoke a drop.

ViRedd · #10 05-21-2008, 01:54 PM

From the article:

'...told staff members not to diagnose the illness because to do so would increase the government's costs."

Why are you guyz suprised at this? Most government health care is eventually rationed as demand reaches its peak and goes over the top. Do you Libs think anything would be different if the federal government took over the entire health care system? This just illustrates the inefficiencies of the federal government.

Vi