A Challenge ... - Page 8

ZenMaster · #71 05-18-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamaiden

Proteins (nucleic acids, protease bases, etcetera) were the first form of "self-reproduction" that existed. These proteins have been reproduced and observed in the lab for many years, and they are known to have existed on early earth. I fail to understand why and how, after all this, one would still insist that faith has any place in scientific teaching and understanding. Come on, the information (and I'm talking about HARD information here, not FAITH, nor requiring faith in anything except the scientific process) is out there! Maybe it's more an issue of knowing where to look than anything, but to not be able to find something yourself and extrapolate that to nothing exists to prove these ideas is flat wrong.
Welcome to the Supramolecular Chemistry Group
Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Emergence of Life - Cambridge University Press

Again, science is repeatable, by anyone, faith is not. Hell, V.S. Ramachandran has already demonstrated that epiphanatic (i.e. religious) episodes can be stimulated in the human brain by a variety of things, among those being certain types of epileptic seizures, strong magnetic pulses, and electrical stimulation. It was reported somewhat erroneously in the press as the brain's "religious center". And guess what! That is also repeatable.

Now take that and tell us that it is more likely than not that there is a God rather than it is our brains' functioning abnormally (as compared to other species/animals) and that is what should be being taught.

I disagree with the assertion that professors of science should not lose their tenure or teaching positions for teaching something that is entirely faith-based as science, as I believe they should. Faith is so malleable that no one can agree on whether or not there are many gods/goddesses versus one "true" god. And of those who agree that there is a single god can't fucking agree on how to worship it. How on EARTH can this mindset be included in something that is so cut and dried as hard science? They should lose their positions as scientists, for faith is not science. They should lose their tenure, and if they wish to teach faith then start a church, don't take other peoples' money to ostensibly teach something like science and mix in faith. Nuh uh, not for me.

The problem I have with science trying to prove the origin of life is because I do not believe that there is any way that this Earth (which couldn't be at a more perfect distance from the Sun) with its seasons, moon, and animals was just random. I do not believe that that the universe is constantly expanding and expanding and will eventually collapse upon itself and we are all here just cause. I do not believe in evolution, I do not believe we came from monkeys. Aliens putting us here is a more logical explanation than damn monkeys, thats pretty sad.

Seamaiden · #72 05-18-2008, 07:40 PM

That's fine, Zen, you're allowed to hold to your belief (or, disbelief, as the matter may prove). The thing that I'm addressing is the idea that faith should be allowed to be taught alongside hard science. There is simply no room for it.

That is NOT to say that there is no room for faith in this world, either, I think there most certainly is. I just make a very sharp delineation between the two.

email468 · #73 05-18-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

The problem I have with science trying to prove the origin of life is because I do not believe that there is any way that this Earth (which couldn't be at a more perfect distance from the Sun) with its seasons, moon, and animals was just random. I do not believe that that the universe is constantly expanding and expanding and will eventually collapse upon itself and we are all here just cause. I do not believe in evolution, I do not believe we came from monkeys. Aliens putting us here is a more logical explanation than damn monkeys, thats pretty sad.

I understand that your beliefs are evidence enough for you. Others, myself included, need evidence before forming an opinion on such topics.

I fail to see how it is more logical that aliens (who we do not know exist) put us here. At least we know monkeys exist, right? so that alone makes the monkey idea more plausible.

So what is more logical to you may not be more logical to me (or more logical to everyone else).

Luckily it doesn't matter what we believe or find logical cause real scientists are actually working hard figuring out what the facts is.... i choose to believe them whereas you do not.

ZenMaster · #74 05-18-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by email468

I understand that your beliefs are evidence enough for you. Others, myself included, need evidence before forming an opinion on such topics.

I fail to see how it is more logical that aliens (who we do not know exist) put us here. At least we know monkeys exist, right? so that alone makes the monkey idea more plausible.

So what is more logical to you may not be more logical to me (or more logical to everyone else).

Luckily it doesn't matter what we believe or find logical cause real scientists are actually working hard figuring out what the facts is.... i choose to believe them whereas you do not.

Well, logically, it is inconceivable that there is no other life forms beyond our planet in the whole universe. So I believe in aliens, the only question arises is how they managed to make it way out here, but that is neither here nor there.

The only reason why the theory of evolution exists is because monkeys are bipedal and we form the assumption that we came from them hence we share a few traits. Thats not good enough. I have said this before, and I shall say it again, we do not know anything, that is you, me, scientists. For hundreds of years we thought the planet was flat and the Earth was the center of the universe. No, I am not going to put any faith behind man.

And contrary to what you might be assuming, I do not use the "God excuse" as a guise for man's ignorance on natural law. It is true that it has been done, mostly in all forms of polytheism, however I think that this is all crafted by a divine architect who wrote the laws of physics, who wrote science. Science and God go hand in hand in my view, its just another aspect of his genius.

Colossians, 1. 16

-For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers.

Seamaiden · #75 05-18-2008, 08:04 PM

Actually, when one does the math, it is perfectly conceivable that we have not been visited by anyone outside our solar system. Timing is EVERYTHING.

medicineman · #76 05-18-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamaiden

Actually, when one does the math, it is perfectly conceivable that we have not been visited by anyone outside our solar system. Timing is EVERYTHING.

What fucking math are you talking about? Prove that it is not possible. Most scientist disagree with you. It may just be possible.

Seamaiden · #77 05-18-2008, 08:09 PM

You're joking, right?

"Most" scientists disagree with me?

I didn't say it was impossible, either.

ZenMaster · #78 05-18-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicineman

What fucking math are you talking about? Prove that it is not possible. Most scientist disagree with you. It may just be possible.

I'm with Med here.

We don't even have an idea of what kind of technology exists beyond our own. For all we know they could teleport, use the event horizon bending of the time and space thing, or some other way that we cannot even fathom. Nothing is impossible.

Seamaiden · #79 05-18-2008, 08:13 PM

Holy cow, am I the only one here who scored well on reading comprehension?

medicineman · #80 05-18-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamaiden

You're joking, right?

"Most" scientists disagree with me?

I didn't say it was impossible, either.

No, I'm not joking. Most scientist now agree that extraterrestial life is not only possible but highly probable. With the trillions of galaxies and the trillions of stars in each galaxy, the odds are just too great that another civilization exists outside our solar system. Do the Math as you say. what are the odds that this planet was one in a trillion trillion.