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  #31  
Old 05-15-2008, 10:55 AM
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Ever hear of the missing link?
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  #32  
Old 05-15-2008, 11:04 AM
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It might help some to look at it as genetics+ natural selection = evolution and the theory of evolution is that evolution is the vehicle that has taken us from point A to point B.

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  #33  
Old 05-15-2008, 11:05 AM
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Things like not finding the coelacanth, finding a missing link, etc... But you guys backing evolution have it easy, to convince me of creation you're going to have to prove the existence of God!
not sure what you mean about not finding the coelacanth - they exist today.

many, many so called "missing link" fossils have been found - including those leading to us. It is true that us guys backing evolution do have it easy if all you need is evidence.

Now keep in mind this is an atheist saying this.... evolution does not explain how life originates - which is why many folks see no compatibility issues between religion and evolution since science hasn't yet completely explained the "spark of life" - though science does get closer every year.

I really don't mean this insultingly when i say, it sounds like you haven't kept up with all the science that supports evolution.
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  #34  
Old 05-15-2008, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by may View Post
It might help some to look at it as genetics+ natural selection = evolution and the theory of evolution is that evolution is the vehicle that has taken us from point A to point B.

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thanks may - i may not be a scientist but i try to promote it every chance i get!
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  #35  
Old 05-15-2008, 11:26 AM
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Finding evidence of evolution is just like homicides are investigated, the police might not have wittnessed the crime or even have a witness, but they collect evidence after the crime was committed..........blood trails, ballistics matches,foot prints, DNA........very similar to palentolgist, biologist collecting the evidence (Fossils , carbon dating, plate tectonics, DNA ect...............All the evidence keeps pointing in one direction, over the last 4.5 billion years life on earth has been evolving through the process of natural selection. Any creationist/Inteligent design is welcomed to submit their theory to a peer reviewed science journal
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2008, 03:36 PM
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Happy Birthday, Pokey. I disagree with you but I hope you have good day.
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Oh my - lots of problems here.
First - you are talking about adaptation not evolution through natural selection. Evolution is the result of natural selection -- not sure how you are separating the two unless you are again confusing natural selection with adaptation.

Ah the old "it's just a theory" and so isn't proven argument. Theory doesn't mean guess - do you know gravity is also just another theory? The Earth revolves around the Sun is yet another theory.

Evolution has the fossil record, genetics, astronomy - literally millions of pieces of evidence in its favor. It sounds like you haven't kept up with the evidence and science regarding Evolution through Natural Selection - its not like it stopped evolving (haha) after Darwin's death.

And if the theory didn't "work" scientists would abandon it. But the predictions made using evolution do work and every time this happens the case for evolution grows stronger.
THANK YOU!

Whenever people argue against natural selection I ask them to explain genetics. Then I ask them to explain the fancy goldfish. Look at what humans can do in an amazingly short period of time (practically punctuated equilibrium) to goldfish, yet one would deny that other forces could effect physiological changes..? Makes no sense to me.

And this is coming from someone who believed what Mahatma Ghandi said, "All religions are true." Bigger fan of Joseph Campbell, though.. Carl Jung was pretty alright, too, but he didn't quite speak to me the same way.
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2008, 04:21 PM
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Happy Birthday, Pokey. I disagree with you but I hope you have good day.

THANK YOU!

Whenever people argue against natural selection I ask them to explain genetics. Then I ask them to explain the fancy goldfish. Look at what humans can do in an amazingly short period of time (practically punctuated equilibrium) to goldfish, yet one would deny that other forces could effect physiological changes..? Makes no sense to me.

And this is coming from someone who believed what Mahatma Ghandi said, "All religions are true." Bigger fan of Joseph Campbell, though.. Carl Jung was pretty alright, too, but he didn't quite speak to me the same way.
Hey SeaMaiden - i'm getting the impression from the movie that people think scientists ban together and decide what theory they like best and keep all other theories from being heard - how absurd!?!?
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2008, 05:21 PM
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Hey SeaMaiden - i'm getting the impression from the movie that people think scientists ban together and decide what theory they like best and keep all other theories from being heard - how absurd!?!?
Knowing a few of them personally myself, that cracks my ass up.
Just look at how archaeologists go after each other for just having a different idea. They are fucking BRUTAL!
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  #39  
Old 05-16-2008, 08:50 AM
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Ben Stein Provokes the Liberals' Wrath

by Phyllis Schlafly, May 7, 2008

Ben Stein is known to many as an actor on Comedy Central. But the funniest part about his latest movie called "Expelled" is not any clever lines spoken by Stein but the hysterical way the liberals are trying to discourage people from seeing it.


Stein's critics don't effectively refute anything in "Expelled"; they just use epithets to ridicule it and hope they can make it go away. However, it won't go away; even Scientific American, which labeled the movie "shameful," concedes that it cannot be ignored.

The movie is about how scientists who dare to criticize Darwinism or discuss the contrary theory called Intelligent Design (ID) are expelled, fired, denied tenure, blacklisted, and bitterly denounced. Academic freedom doesn't extend to this issue.

The message of Stein's critics comes through loud and clear. They don't want anybody to challenge Darwinian orthodoxy or suggest that Intelligent Design might be an explanation of the origin of life.

Stein, who serves as his own narrator in the movie, is very deadpan about it all. He doesn't try to convince the audience that Darwinism is a fraud, or that God created the world, or even that some unidentified Intelligent Design might have started life on Earth.

Stein merely shows the intolerance of the universities, the government, the courts, the grant-making foundations and the media, and their determination to suppress any mention of Intelligent Design.

The only question posed by the movie is why, oh why, is there such a deliberate, consistent, widespread, vindictive effort to silence all criticism of dogmatic Darwinism or discussion of alternate theories of the origin of life? Stein interviews scientists who were blacklisted, denied grants, and ostracized in the academic community because they dared to write or speak the forbidden words.

The liberals are particularly upset because the movie identifies Darwinism, rather than evolution, as the sacred word that must be isolated from criticism. But that semantic choice makes good sense because Darwinism is easily defined by Darwin's own writings, whereas the word evolution is subject to different and even contrary definitions.

The truly funny part of the movie is Stein's interview with Richard Dawkins, whose best-selling book "The God Delusion" established this Englishman as the world's premier atheist. Dawkins is a leading advocate of the theory that all life evolved from a single beginning in an ancient mud puddle, perhaps after being struck by lightning.

Putting aside the issue of evolving, how did life begin in the first place? Under Stein's questioning, Dawkins finally said it is possible that life might have evolved on Earth after the arrival of a more highly developed being from another planet.

Aren't aliens from outer space the stuff of science fiction? And how was the other-planet alien created? According to Dawkins, life must have just spontaneously evolved on another planet, of course without God.

Stein spent two years traveling the world to gather material for this movie. He interviewed scores of scientists and academics who say they were retaliated against because of questioning Darwin's theories.

Stein interviewed Dr. Richard Sternberg, a biologist who lost his position at the prestigious Smithsonian Institution after he published a peer-reviewed article that mentioned Intelligent Design. Other academics who said they were victims of the anti-ID campus police included astrobiologist Guillermo Gonzalez, denied tenure at Iowa State University, and Caroline Crocker, who lost her professorship at George Mason University.

Stein dares to include some filming at the death camps in Nazi Germany as a backdrop for interviews that explain Charles Darwin's considerable influence on Adolf Hitler and his well-known atrocities. The Darwin-Hitler connection was not a Stein discovery; Darwin's influence on Hitler's political worldview, and Hitler's rejection of the sacredness of human life, is acknowledged in standard biographies of Hitler.

Stein also addresses how Darwin's theories influenced one of the U.S.'s most embarrassing periods, the eugenics fad of the early 20th century. Thousands of Americans were legally sterilized as physically or mentally unfit.

Mandatory sterilization based on Darwin's theories was even approved by the U.S. Supreme Court, with Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes writing his famous line, "Three generations of imbeciles are enough." Stein also reminds us that Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist who wanted to eliminate the races she believed were inferior.

Stein's message is that the attack on freedom of inquiry is anti-science, anti-American, and anti-the whole concept of learning. His dramatization should force the public, and maybe even academia, to address this extraordinary intolerance of diversity.

Read this article online: http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2008/may08/08-05-07.html [/font]
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  #40  
Old 05-16-2008, 09:03 AM
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This is the same shit that happened long ago, if you dared hint that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe you were jailed or killed.
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