Go Ron ... - Page 4

joemomma · #31 05-13-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceestyle

- as the tragedies of VT, NIU, and other prove - is that when it is easy for people to get guns legally, bad shit can and will happen. While obviously the long-term solution is teaching people how to properly deal with their anger, there will always be those that reach for a gun .. and if it's there, the innocent have their problems to deal with.

To me these tragedies only serve to prove that good people should be able to own guns. If there was a straight a student with a glock they could have taken out the bastard before they killed so many.

What would really suck is if some psycho with his illegally gotten firearm came after me and my family and I had no way to defend myself because guns are bad and illegal.

Gun prohibition will ONLY keep guns away from law abiding citizens. Violent criminals don't give a rats ass about gun laws and probably favor those laws cause then it means when they brake into someones house to steal their shit or rape them or whatever, there is a greater chance of the criminal surviving and profiting from his crime.

No matter what kind of laws are passed you cannot stop people from becoming killers anyhow, if they can't get a gun they'll get something else that is just as deadly.

Gun laws would only make things safer for criminals.

VTXDave · #32 05-13-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceestyle

if he is a true Libertarian

He's a Republican. He has served 10 terms as a Representative. All ten terms he ran as a Republican. Even when he ran for POTUS in 1988 and even though he was the Libertarian nominee, he was still a registered Republican...
Ron Paul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

He entered the 1988 presidential election, running as the Libertarian nominee while remaining a registered Republican, and placed a distant third.

ceestyle · #33 05-13-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemomma

To me these tragedies only serve to prove that good people should be able to own guns. If there was a straight a student with a glock they could have taken out the bastard before they killed so many.

What would really suck is if some psycho with his illegally gotten firearm came after me and my family and I had no way to defend myself because guns are bad and illegal.

Gun prohibition will ONLY keep guns away from law abiding citizens. Violent criminals don't give a rats ass about gun laws and probably favor those laws cause then it means when they brake into someones house to steal their shit or rape them or whatever, there is a greater chance of the criminal surviving and profiting from his crime.

No matter what kind of laws are passed you cannot stop people from becoming killers anyhow, if they can't get a gun they'll get something else that is just as deadly.

Gun laws would only make things safer for criminals.

You've got to be kidding me.

Look at the majority of Europe and Asia and tell me that's the case. People in Japan sure stab each other when they're pissed, but the fact that guns just aren't available is obviously a major factor is their complete absence of gun violence. What's 'just as deadly' ? A knife? What is going to allow someone to take out tens of people in a short period of time, that you can buy at walmart?

I don't want people with guns in the classroom. That is ludicrous. Not to mention you get some jackass with a gun in a situation like that who thinks they can be the hero, and they end up making the situation more dangerous. I can't believe you think that's a good idea.

If you want to keep guns out of criminals' hands, you have to start somewhere. Saying that you can't is just defeatist and stupid. I'm scared about how easy it is for bad drivers to get behind the wheel of a weapon that can go 100 and weighs a few tons. Trusting any citizen in good standing with a gun? I'm outta here if that scenario becomes a reality.

That 'logic' about gun control has been around forever, and by every measure of evidence available is completely fallacious. Where did it come from? Heston's cold, dead hands and the NRA?

ceestyle · #34 05-13-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTXDave

He's a Republican. He has served 10 terms as a Representative. All ten terms he ran as a Republican. Even when he ran for POTUS in 1988 and even though he was the Libertarian nominee, he was still a registered Republican...
Ron Paul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yabbut, look at his website. the 'issues' section. please tell me it's not all libertarian rhetoric.

ZenMaster · #35 05-13-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceestyle

You've got to be kidding me.

Look at the majority of Europe and Asia and tell me that's the case. People in Japan sure stab each other when they're pissed, but the fact that guns just aren't available is obviously a major factor is their complete absence of gun violence.

I don't want people with guns in the classroom. That is ludicrous. Not to mention you get some jackass with a gun in a situation like that who thinks they can be the hero, and they end up making the situation more dangerous. I can't believe you think that's a good idea.

If you want to keep guns out of criminals' hands, you have to start somewhere. Saying that you can't is just defeatist and stupid. I'm scared about how easy for bad drivers to get behind the wheel of a weapon that can go 100 and weighs a few tons. Trusting any citizen in good standing with a gun? I'm outta here if that scenario becomes a reality.

Yeah I remember watching "some" of bowling for columbine (I hate micheal moore) and he gave some statistics of say germany with its few gun deaths and shows America's and goes on to say how horribly violent with guns we are. What he failed to mention was that death by knifing in Germany is mega X more than America's. Its all about spin to win your argument I suppose.

ceestyle · #36 05-13-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

Yeah I remember watching "some" of bowling for columbine (I hate micheal moore) and he gave some statistics of say germany with its few gun deaths and shows America's and goes on to say how horribly violent with guns we are. What he failed to mention was that death by knifing in Germany is mega X more than America's. Its all about spin to win your argument I suppose.

yes, but knife vs. blunt object is a contest someone can win, and if it's person with knife vs. more than one person, it's no longer a contest. you can not say that about a gun.

i'm not saying the presence of guns is the only problem. since you brought up that movie, there is canada as a clear counterexample (they have lots o guns). but the fact is that if there are no guns, there is no gun violence ... and the point of the 2nd amendment is now completely moot, so why should we have them outside of the wilderness?

VTXDave · #37 05-13-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceestyle

yabbut, look at his website. the 'issues' section. please tell me it's not all libertarian rhetoric.

yabbut? yabbut what? Well...OK. As I support Ron Paul, I have been to his website numerous times. He's a strict Constitutionalist if anything. Definitely not a "true" Libertarian. He is the only candidate that has a proven track record of, and knows the true meaning of "...defend the Constitution" which is part of the Oath of Office taken by the POTUS.

Any words on your "bigot by association" and my retort regarding donations?

ceestyle · #38 05-13-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTXDave

yabbut? yabbut what? Well...OK. As I support Ron Paul, I have been to his website numerous times. He's a strict Constitutionalist if anything. Definitely not a "true" Libertarian. He is the only candidate that has a proven track record of, and knows the true meaning of "...defend the Constitution" which is part of the Oath of Office taken by the POTUS.

Any words on your "bigot by association" and my retort regarding donations?

oh yeah. this isn't 'obama vs. paul', first of all, so I'm not here to defend or compare. Ron Paul should give back the money from Don Black unless he is a racist. Period. If I were to defend Obama, it would be to say that the NBPP does not stand for racism or intolerance, even if members of it undoubtedly are. Therefore, taking money from them is not principally wrong, unless there is a history of the organization perpetrating racism and violence. If that is the case, then it is every bit as foul.

I must profess that I do not care enough about the Libertarian party to discuss the semantics of Ron Paul's policy differences. The reason is that I think the Libertarians and Ron Paul are off the deep end in terms of what they believe in. And the few saving graces of the platform - sexual freedom applied to homosexuality and the right to safe, legal abortion - are not included in Ron Paul's agenda! I could not possibly support such a ludicrous platform. The right to life BS would be enough in itself. Even if you don't believe in abortion - for whatever reason - it is a public health issue, as it was when Roe v. Wade was decided ...

ceestyle · #39 05-13-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTXDave

yabbut? yabbut what? Well...OK. As I support Ron Paul, I have been to his website numerous times. He's a strict Constitutionalist if anything. Definitely not a "true" Libertarian. He is the only candidate that has a proven track record of, and knows the true meaning of "...defend the Constitution" which is part of the Oath of Office taken by the POTUS.

Any words on your "bigot by association" and my retort regarding donations?

One more comment about this. I think that people get WAY WAY too wrapped up in the constitution as a sacred document. It's not the Bible, for chrissake .. not that the Bible is an example that resonates with me, but it was written by some very smart people ... a very very long time ago. This world is changing. There are absolutely brilliant ideas in the there, but they were drafted for a different time and nation than we live in today. They were certainly human - hence we have amendments. When the document was written, people owned slaves and shit in holes in the ground!!

Wordz · #40 05-13-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicineman

Geeze a new guy with an attitude. Go get a fucking job so you can mellow out. I've been here quite a while, so maybe I should ask you where the fuck did you come from? If you are refering to my LIBS moniker in a couple a threads back, I was referring to libertarians, geeze you are a wise one aint ya? Hey I'll take you on as well as all these nazis on this site, name your poison. I usually try and get along............. well maybe not but I am a friendly guy..............well maybe not, but I have great tolerance for stupid assholes..............well maybe not, but I promise I'll try and do better......................well maybe not!

Who are you calling nazi's? The people who don't need the government to hold our dicks when we piss?