So Vi, you have been wowed by RON PAUL as well? Whats your thoughts about him?

Parker, I thought your answer was going to be epic or something... I thought Seamaiden was hinting at something bigger than that..........

__________________
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Ghandi........
"We must learn to live together as brothers, or perish together as fools." MLK

I've been a Ron Paul fan for years ... ever since I read his book titled "The Money Book." He's one of the very few in a high government position who has dared to tell the truth about our scam, slave money and tax system. Ron Paul is a true America patriot. He is a constitutional scholar in the first degree. He doesn't just talk the talk, he walks it too. In fact he struts the shit out of it.


Ron Paul has brought a new dimension to the thinking of young people in this country. These are people who have been indoctrinated in our government monopolized school systems where the principles of freedom and liberty are not taught anymore. That right there is the major importance of Ron Paul running for president ... and still hanging in there. I heard him say the other day that he will be in it until the end.

With that said, sadly, he doesn't stand a chance of being elected. He has faced an almost total media blackout ... and when he is mentioned, its with negative comments.

I'm gonna vote for him anyway.

Vi

</IMG></IMG>

__________________
Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.

When you have a competitive market the costs to consumers goes down. The technology field has shown us the cost of products goes down over time in a competitive market. Computers, and before that calculaters and televisions.

Although well intentioned, I don't want the government to take care of my medical needs. I've learned they are not capable from their past history. Plus it's not their job.

I believe, over time, people will gather more information on errors and successes as well as what caused them in order to avoid mistakes. A mistake is an error not corrected. Hopefully the information age lessons the role of our government dependancy.

__________________
Are you stupid or apathetic? I dont know and I dont care

None of the over 4000 babies delivered by Ron Paul were Anthony Quinns'. What are the odds!!

__________________
Are you stupid or apathetic? I dont know and I dont care

Originally Posted by medicineman
Your copay and out of pocket with universal health care would be ZERO. Higher taxes for sure but the overall cost of medical would come down as soon as the profit was eliminated. Profit and health care seem like an oxymoron to me.

To quote P.J. O'Roark ... "If you think medical care is expensive now, just wait until its free!"


Vi

__________________
Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.

RP would not accept Medicare or Medicaid payments, instead working for free. What a concept! And that's just the beginning of his lifelong demonstration of his integrity, a word disingenuously used by almost ALL other candidates or politicians.

__________________

I think the fundamental problem with all of the systems that are not purely privatized or purely governmentally funded is this: The consumer of the product does not truly have the option of choice that drives the competitive market spoken of when advocating privatization.

It is the government that chooses at best a few options for those that require health care, based on bottom-line cost. The consumer then ends up with a few options that are all weak. The problem is that in order for the market forces of privatization to work, the consumer cannot be a third-party recipient of services. This is exactly what has happened to the prison system - the corporation that runs the service simply wants to make more money, and will do whatever it can to slight the consumer to do so, as it is in its best interest ... more than that, it is the sole function of a corporation to make money. You can easily see this in health care - doing the least possible for health care recipients, while billing erroneously to the insurance companies. It's a joke, but the system is simply structured that way. It's simply a conflict of interest that can only be resolved by separating them. This could happen one of two ways:

1. Complete elimination of all government involvement in health care. Completely privatize the system, giving total power to the consumer, who is responsible for direct costs.

2. Make the system completely run by the government, ala Nader's single-payer system.

You can argue the merits of either, and I can see both, but anything between is just a farce.

__________________
Lumens, lux, and adding it all up :: 16K HPS vs. CFL :: DIY Drip Irrigation :: Pack water transport

The single payer system is the best with the option of having your own private medical and getting a tax break, But when that $200,000 medical bill comes due, no jumping on the single payer bandwagon.

__________________
Life is good, the water is sweet. The ground keeps moving beneath my feet.

Cee, would you agree that no extreme is good or beneficial?

__________________

Quite the opposite. I think that only an extreme will work. Otherwise, you have private corporations doing what they do best: serving their stockholders by making as much money as possible. I'm not trying to demonize them, but that's just what they do. Any system of the government subsidizing or otherwise paying private industry will result in private industry being very efficient, that much is correct. But being efficient is taking as much money as they can to perform the service, billing out as much as possible to insurance, and providing the absolute minimum necessary to patients in order to satisfy some system of standards or to keep them from firebombing the clinic.

The fundamental disconnect between the payer and the recipient of the service is the problem.

Many would argue that these are public services that should be run at a loss. Why should health care be a profitable business? It really shouldn't - it's a public service! What if I complained about how much money we wasted on the national park system, and that we should hire private companies to run it at a profit or at least possible cost? Do you think that would improve park service? My bet would be no.

__________________
Lumens, lux, and adding it all up :: 16K HPS vs. CFL :: DIY Drip Irrigation :: Pack water transport