How Should States Deal with Polygamous Sects?

Dankdude · #1 05-09-2008, 05:15 PM

By Faye Bowers, Christian Science Monitor. Posted May 8, 2008.

Utah and Arizona have mostly ignored the FLDS since the infamous 1953 raid of Short Creek. Now, political pressure may force them to crack down.

PHOENIX -- It was a showdown, of sorts, over how far states should go to keep tabs on the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, the group known to endorse multiple wives for men and motherhood for underage girls. In a public spat, officials from Arizona and Utah squared off last week against a U.S. senator who suggested that the two states, home to FLDS communities, should follow the more interventionist approach of Texas in cracking down on the breakaway Mormon sect.

At the end of it all, the wrangling may well result in federal involvement in investigating the FLDS, which numbers more than 10,000 and has compounds in several Western states, Canada, and Mexico. But it also underscores why Arizona and Utah have moved with caution in dealing with the FLDS, compared with Texas' decision last month to take temporary custody of all the children living at the group's Yearning for Zion ranch in the wake of abuse complaints.

The dispute began April 28th with a radio interview with Sen. Harry Reid (D) of Nevada, which drew an angry letter from the Arizona and Utah attorneys general.

"I am a cheerleader for what Texas is doing," Senator Reid told the University of Utah's KUER RadioWest. "Texas is doing what Utah and Arizona should have done decades ago … " Reid, the majority leader and a Mormon, added that he has asked the U.S. Justice Department to create a task force to investigate the FLDS.

Texas raided the 1,700-acre FLDS ranch in early April and took temporary custody of all 463 children, pending the state's voluminous investigation of child-abuse allegations. Arizona and Utah have not acted on that scale, at least not since 1953. But the two states did join forces about five years ago to "apply the rule of law" in the border towns of Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, headquarters of the FLDS. They have prosecuted the FLDS leader as well as several other male members, removed much of the sect's financial underpinnings, and set up in those two towns social services and sheriff's offices that are operated by people from outside the FLDS group.

When Mark Shurtleff became Utah's attorney general in 2001, one investigator specifically worked cases in "closed communities" -- code, he says, for polygamous communities. That investigator chased down Tom Green, later convicted of child rape, bigamy, and fraud. Several of Mr. Green's underage wives were from the FLDS towns on the Utah-Arizona border.

"My determination to do something started then," Mr. Shurtleff says in a phone interview. "We hadn't done anything in 50 years, and I said it's time we start investigating these cases."

Both Utah and Arizona had mostly ignored the FLDS since the infamous 1953 raid of Short Creek, the Arizona town that now goes by the name Colorado City. "In the inky darkness of an eclipsed moon," The Arizona Republic reported on July 27, 1953, "more than 100 Arizona peace officers yesterday seized virtually every man, woman, and child in this historically polygamous village," after a two-year investigation by the state of Arizona.

Some 36 men, 86 women, and 263 children were taken into custody. The state charged most of the men and several of the women with crimes ranging from rape and bigamy to violating corporation laws and misappropriating school funds. Many of the women and all of the children were placed in foster care.

But after two years of acrimonious hearings and public recriminations, the charges were dropped and the families all went back to Short Creek.

"Then what happened was a mutual withdrawal," says Terry Goddard, Arizona's attorney general. "Any contacts with the outside world that had begun … were cut off by the devout, and the state decided, once burned, we'll just stay away."

It wasn't until 2003 that Attorney General Goddard joined forces with Shurtleff, his counterpart in Utah, to hold a "summit" with the FLDS communities in the Arizona-Utah border region. During 50 years of government absence, the two say, the sect had become more autocratic, much larger, and wealthier.

Both say their state laws differ from those in Texas, and they note that Texas officials responded to a complaint on a single piece of property -- the ranch -- whereas the FLDS-dominated communities within their borders are actual towns. A big difference, Goddard says, is that Arizona officials, upon receiving a call claiming abuse, must identify the actual victim and could probably take only that one child, or perhaps all children in the one home, if there are signs of abuse. They wouldn't be able to enter all homes in the city because of one abuse complaint.

But Goddard and Shurtleff say their renewed focus on the FLDS is what drove Warren Jeffs, the now-imprisoned FLDS leader, to move his select followers to the Texas ranch. The states have also prosecuted Mr. Jeffs and eight other men in the group. They've decertified six police officers in the two towns who refused to report cases of abuse. They removed one justice of the peace.

Both states have also acted to remove the FLDS's major financial supports. Arizona took control of public funding for local schools, which it says the sect's leaders misused. Utah gave a private administrator charge over a communal FLDS trust previously controlled by Jeffs.

"The FLDS was relying on a lot of state funds for sustenance -- welfare funds as well as money from the school district, which they dominated," says Ira Ellman, an expert on family law at Arizona State University's Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law in Tempe. "The state took over the school system and, in effect, took a lot of their income away."

Shurtleff and Goddard have since talked with Reid, who has assured them that the Justice Department will get in touch with them, along with the attorney general of Nevada, to begin a federal investigation into FLDS activities and to see how the U.S. government can help.

may · #2 05-10-2008, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankdude

By Faye Bowers, Christian Science Monitor. Posted May 8, 2008.

Utah and Arizona have mostly ignored the FLDS since the infamous 1953 raid of Short Creek. Now, political pressure may force them to crack down.

PHOENIX -- It was a showdown, of sorts, over how far states should go to keep tabs on the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, the group known to endorse multiple wives for men and motherhood for underage girls. In a public spat, officials from Arizona and Utah squared off last week against a U.S. senator who suggested that the two states, home to FLDS communities, should follow the more interventionist approach of Texas in cracking down on the breakaway Mormon sect.

At the end of it all, the wrangling may well result in federal involvement in investigating the FLDS, which numbers more than 10,000 and has compounds in several Western states, Canada, and Mexico. But it also underscores why Arizona and Utah have moved with caution in dealing with the FLDS, compared with Texas' decision last month to take temporary custody of all the children living at the group's Yearning for Zion ranch in the wake of abuse complaints.

The dispute began April 28th with a radio interview with Sen. Harry Reid (D) of Nevada, which drew an angry letter from the Arizona and Utah attorneys general.

"I am a cheerleader for what Texas is doing," Senator Reid told the University of Utah's KUER RadioWest. "Texas is doing what Utah and Arizona should have done decades ago … " Reid, the majority leader and a Mormon, added that he has asked the U.S. Justice Department to create a task force to investigate the FLDS.

Texas raided the 1,700-acre FLDS ranch in early April and took temporary custody of all 463 children, pending the state's voluminous investigation of child-abuse allegations. Arizona and Utah have not acted on that scale, at least not since 1953. But the two states did join forces about five years ago to "apply the rule of law" in the border towns of Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, headquarters of the FLDS. They have prosecuted the FLDS leader as well as several other male members, removed much of the sect's financial underpinnings, and set up in those two towns social services and sheriff's offices that are operated by people from outside the FLDS group.

When Mark Shurtleff became Utah's attorney general in 2001, one investigator specifically worked cases in "closed communities" -- code, he says, for polygamous communities. That investigator chased down Tom Green, later convicted of child rape, bigamy, and fraud. Several of Mr. Green's underage wives were from the FLDS towns on the Utah-Arizona border.

"My determination to do something started then," Mr. Shurtleff says in a phone interview. "We hadn't done anything in 50 years, and I said it's time we start investigating these cases."

Both Utah and Arizona had mostly ignored the FLDS since the infamous 1953 raid of Short Creek, the Arizona town that now goes by the name Colorado City. "In the inky darkness of an eclipsed moon," The Arizona Republic reported on July 27, 1953, "more than 100 Arizona peace officers yesterday seized virtually every man, woman, and child in this historically polygamous village," after a two-year investigation by the state of Arizona.

Some 36 men, 86 women, and 263 children were taken into custody. The state charged most of the men and several of the women with crimes ranging from rape and bigamy to violating corporation laws and misappropriating school funds. Many of the women and all of the children were placed in foster care.

But after two years of acrimonious hearings and public recriminations, the charges were dropped and the families all went back to Short Creek.

"Then what happened was a mutual withdrawal," says Terry Goddard, Arizona's attorney general. "Any contacts with the outside world that had begun … were cut off by the devout, and the state decided, once burned, we'll just stay away."

It wasn't until 2003 that Attorney General Goddard joined forces with Shurtleff, his counterpart in Utah, to hold a "summit" with the FLDS communities in the Arizona-Utah border region. During 50 years of government absence, the two say, the sect had become more autocratic, much larger, and wealthier.

Both say their state laws differ from those in Texas, and they note that Texas officials responded to a complaint on a single piece of property -- the ranch -- whereas the FLDS-dominated communities within their borders are actual towns. A big difference, Goddard says, is that Arizona officials, upon receiving a call claiming abuse, must identify the actual victim and could probably take only that one child, or perhaps all children in the one home, if there are signs of abuse. They wouldn't be able to enter all homes in the city because of one abuse complaint.

But Goddard and Shurtleff say their renewed focus on the FLDS is what drove Warren Jeffs, the now-imprisoned FLDS leader, to move his select followers to the Texas ranch. The states have also prosecuted Mr. Jeffs and eight other men in the group. They've decertified six police officers in the two towns who refused to report cases of abuse. They removed one justice of the peace.

Both states have also acted to remove the FLDS's major financial supports. Arizona took control of public funding for local schools, which it says the sect's leaders misused. Utah gave a private administrator charge over a communal FLDS trust previously controlled by Jeffs.

"The FLDS was relying on a lot of state funds for sustenance -- welfare funds as well as money from the school district, which they dominated," says Ira Ellman, an expert on family law at Arizona State University's Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law in Tempe. "The state took over the school system and, in effect, took a lot of their income away."

Shurtleff and Goddard have since talked with Reid, who has assured them that the Justice Department will get in touch with them, along with the attorney general of Nevada, to begin a federal investigation into FLDS activities and to see how the U.S. government can help.

Well medicineman thinks that it very bad to bother them.
Me I think that its good that something was done.

Mr. Maryjane · #3 05-11-2008, 10:11 AM

you know, If you have enough love for more than one spouse, have fun with it. but you could only have 4 or maybe 5 wifes before, it stops being anything personel, and that's if you just stay home all day and spend time with them. most guys couldn't handle 2 wifes, and most women probably wouldn't put up with multiple guys. but all these things on the news 'n' shit, it seemed like all the women were the kind to just go along with whatever the dude said. that's whats really wrong with it, as far as I'm concerned, cause they'd raise their children that way, too. and that's fucked up. dudes ain't better than chicks, matter of fact, chicks are better, they're the ones that give birth, and they're just naturally more attractive than dudes, guys see alot more hot chicks than chicks see hot guys

natrone23 · #4 05-11-2008, 07:16 PM

To be honest I don't have any problems with polygamy but I do have problems with brainwashing, indocternation and 50 year old men banging 15 year olds

medicineman · #5 05-11-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natrone23

To be honest I don't have any problems with polygamy but I do have problems with brainwashing, indocternation and 50 year old men banging 15 year olds

Yeah, we gotta stop the underage girl thing, but otherwise if that is their religion then leave them the hell alone. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of things in different religions most of us could disagree with, self flagellation for one seems pretty disturbing, piercings and other blood rituals seem pretty archaic, hey, whatever happened to freedom of religion???

Mr. Maryjane · #6 05-11-2008, 08:11 PM

for sure, I'm with you natrone, but medacineman, when that religion interfears with basic human rights, It needs to be done away with. I don't know, being completely objective on this issue is just hurting my brain. on one hand, people should be free to raise their children how they want, on the other hand, if they're teaching their kids to have their lives revolve around a religion that (to us) isn't right, because it has major things way messed up(like women should be subservient or whatever) but then on the other other hand(I got's three) were doing the same thing. passing down our beliefs to our children, and to one of the religions we think is fucked up, what we're teaching our kids is fucked up. therefore, all we can do is try to convert them to our religion, while they're trying to do the same. now my head hurts, from thinkin about all this shit(makes me kinda sad too)

medicineman · #7 05-12-2008, 10:18 AM

Exactly. The sanctity and freedom afforded individuals and parents should not be interfered with unless there is criminal activity. Can the one phone call by a teenage girl be grounds for raiding an entire compound and stealing 420+++ kids away from their mothers. I find this appaling. The Texas authorities have been just itching to raid this compound for months. I wouldn't doubt that phone call was made up. If 50+ year old assholes are fucking 15 year old girls and this is against Texas law, (Some southern states allow 13 year olds to marry), why didn't Texas authorities get a warrant for the 50+ year old man and arrest him???

rockfish · #8 05-12-2008, 12:07 PM

I have to agree with you Medicineman. If their culture and religion supports polygamy, why should we interfere? I am against child molestation, but there are MANY cultures where teenaged girls are expected to enter arranged marriages. If they can prove that someone is molesting children, then arrest the perpetrator, but otherwise leave the children with their parents.

I can only imagine how scared and confused all those kids are in TX that are not being allowed to return to their parents! That is just wrong in my opinion!

I now live in the desert southwest and have met several FLDS families. Without exception they have been pleasant, humble people. The kids are always clean, healthy and well-behaved. The only thing I could say is that they may be a bit simple, but then again they come from a really isolated community.

I think that this is just another case of the government legislating morality. Gay rights, abortion, marriage, prostitution, even dare I say drug use are all issues where the government is interfering with the constitutional rights of the citizens because of moral/religious disagreement.

People should be allowed to live their lives without unreasonable interference by the government! There should be a law or something! ...oh wait...didn't I read about something called The Constitution somewhere?...

Sorry for ranting...

~Rock~

kronicsmurf · #9 05-12-2008, 04:17 PM

I could care less if a man wants more than 1 wife. Live and let live but when it comes down to old fuckers molesting children thats a crime and justice should be swift and harsh.

40acres · #10 05-12-2008, 04:39 PM

How come only ten boys were found and about 400 little girls?